2/1 Books ?

[Chamaco]

Hi all,

I'd like to know whether there are recommended books on 2/1 for the following very specific topics:

 

- 2nd and 3rd round rebids in NO fit auctions , especially by responder.

 

The reason is the following: after reading a previous thread, I learned that many experts nowadays play that after

1M:2m

2M

 

or, say,

1H:2C

2D:

 

The next step up is not natural but just relaying for knowing more of opener's hand.

Also, 4th suit forcing does not apply since we are in a force anyway.

I suspect there are many more subtleties.

 

Therefore I would like to know whether there are good source boks to study the details of modern approaches to 2/1 :

I do NOT mean the details of 1NT forcing NOR dealing with the various ways to support opener major and/OR deciding whether to drive to slam or game after the major fit was found.

I do mean the details of second round responder's rebid or of 3rd round opener's (and or responder) rebid WHEN WE HAVE NOT FOUND A FIT.

 

I will list below the sources I already have:

 

1) Lawrence's Workbook on 2/1

2) Lawrence's Uncontested auction

3) Lawrence's 2/1 CD

4) Hardy's 2/1

5) Hardy's Standard bidding for the 21st century

6) Hardy's Advanced bidding for the 21st century

7) Fred Gitelman's articles on "Improving 2/1 GF"

8) Better bidding with Bergen

9) Bergen's Understang 1NT forcing (not relevant for the topic of this thread)

 

Do you recommend other sources ?

 

Thanks !

[GijsH]

I think you are referring to Bourke realy, described in "Tournament ACOL" by Bird/Bourke.

[flytoox]

Looks like I cannt answer ur question but you can answer some my questions. Mauro, is Hardy's adv. biddding for 21st century good? I have his std bidding for 21st century, but my feeling is this book is very poorly organized and only touch very basic issues. So I wonder if the adv bidding book is worth to read.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Hongjun

[Chamaco]

I think you are referring to Bourke realy, described in "Tournament ACOL" by Bird/Bourke.

I do not know that book, I might get it if that treatment is becoming std for 2/1 (and not ACOL).

[Chamaco]

Looks like I cannt answer ur question but you can answer some my questions. Maureen, is Hardy's adv. biddding for 21st century good? I have his std bidding for 21st century, but my feeling is this book is very poorly organized and only touch very basic issues. So I wonder if the adv bidding book is worth to read.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Hongjun

Advanced bidding has SOME good suggestions: e.g.

- xyz

- Hardy major raises and a few more.

 

However, on the whole, I would not recommend it.

 

BTW: My name is Mauro :-)

[flytoox]

BTW: My name is Mauro :-)

Ah, sry for my bad memory.

[flytoox]

I think you are referring to Bourke realy, described in "Tournament ACOL" by Bird/Bourke.

Most of Acol books, I think, didnt touch the 2nd or 3rd round bidding.

[aijianhua]

Looks like I cannt answer ur question but you can answer some my questions. Mauro, is Hardy's adv. biddding for 21st century good? I have his std bidding for 21st century, but my feeling is this book is very poorly organized and only touch very basic issues. So I wonder if the adv bidding book is worth to read.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Hongjun

I have the book, and I don't think that it is good for the players like you.

[flytoox]

Looks like I cannt answer ur question but you can answer some my questions. Mauro, is Hardy's adv. biddding for 21st century good? I have his std bidding for 21st century, but my feeling is this book is very poorly organized and only touch very basic issues. So I wonder if the adv bidding book is worth to read.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Hongjun

I have the book, and I don't think that it is good for the players like you.

I have been searching Lawrence's 2/1 uncontested book for long time. someone told me he is suing the press and the book is out of the market. have u read this one?

[Chamaco]

I have been searching Lawrence's 2/1 uncontested book for long time. someone told me he is suing the press and the book is out of the market. have u read this one?

 

There are 2 boos:

 

1) Lawrence's "2/1 work book"

This is more a textbook on specific 2/1 auctions (1M:2x, 1M:1NT forcing, and 1D:2C auctions).

There a small chapter also on the 3 card raise by opener in the sequence 1m:1M:2M.

 

Even if Lawrence's writing style make it hard to figure out quickly the full biding scheme of a system, the book is really worth the money;

 

2) Lawrence's "The uncontested auction"

This one also overs one over auctions.

In my opinion it is a very good book.

However, it is a set of commented examples, not really organized.

 

Despite the lack of organization, al the examples are commented very well, and it helped me a lot, therefore I strongly recommend it.

I purchased it 1.5 year ago via Baronbarclay, if I remember correctly.

 

Both books are worth reading

 

There is also a 3rd book, "The contested auction", which IMO is not as good as the others, although it still feaures the usual series of examples which will help the reader understanding how an expet hand evaluation works.

[flytoox]

Mauro, thanks very much for your kindness. I do have the workbook and the contested auction. But my opinion is slightly different from yous. :( I actually think the contested auction is a very very good book, it really helps me to understand how to bid when opps interfere our opening bid. This book is not only for 2/1 players but also for any system players in my opinion. A must read for everyone.

 

cheers

 

Hongjun

[Chamaco]

Mauro, thanks very much for your kindness. I do have the workbook and the contested auction. But my opinion is slightly different from yous. :( I actually think the contested auction is a very very good book, it really helps me to understand how to bid when opps interfere our opening bid. This book is not only for 2/1 players but also for any system players in my opinion. A must read for everyone.

 

cheers

 

Hongjun

Hi Hongjun,

I did not say that Contested auction is bad book :-)

 

I simply hink that it is not outstanding as the other 2.

Mostly because nowadays there are other books which cover, in my opinion, better the contested auction such as:

 

Better Bidding with Bergen-contested

Pship bidding at bridge - Robson/Segal

Competitive bidding for the 21st century- Miles

 

and others.

 

So the main difference in my own evaluation of the books is the amount of original material/suggestions unavailable elsewhere in pusblished books.

[ArcLight]

I have 3 of Hardys books:

2/1 Game Force

Standard Bidding for the 21st Century

Advanced Bidding for the 21st Century

 

I have lots of other books to read beore I get to them (such as teh Bergen bidding books and Marshall Miles Bidding for teh 21st Century).

 

Are the Hardy books worth reading?

What is wrong with the Hardy books?

Does Hardy use his own system that is not widely used?

He has a section on Reversing based on shape, not HCP, is that a better treatment?

Is it that he suggests conventions that are not as effective as others?

Does he leave out valuable conventions?

 

 

At this point I just want a good core set of rules, I'm not worried about "the ultimate best" set of conventions.

[flytoox]

I have 3 of Hardys books:

2/1 Game Force

Standard Bidding for the 21st Century

Advanced Bidding for the 21st Century

 

I have lots of other books to read beore I get to them (such as teh Bergen bidding books and Marshall Miles Bidding for teh 21st Century).

 

Are the Hardy books worth reading?

What is wrong with the Hardy books?

Does Hardy use his own system that is not widely used?

He has a section on Reversing based on shape, not HCP, is that a better treatment?

Is it that he suggests conventions that are not as effective as others?

Does he leave out valuable conventions?

 

 

At this point I just want a good core set of rules, I'm not worried about "the ultimate best" set of conventions.

Hardy's problem, in my opinion, is that he seldom sets difficult question. He only gives those good hands for his system. Lawrence, on the other hand, will show u easy hand and difficult hand, and he also tells u how he thinks about it and he is very honest, sometimes he just says i dont know the answer, but this is my bid, then analysis follows.

 

His orgnization is not very good either. For example, his std bidding for the 21st century. Frankly i think it is not worth my money.

 

Bergen's better bidding is excellent. i think this book, plus lawrence's 2/1 workbook, contested auction, and complete book of overcall shld make any player win the bidding game against most experts on BBO.

 

 

Mile's book is kind of book u wont miss much if u dont have it, thuough the idea of overcall at 2-4 level with 4card suit is quite interesting, and new to me.

[pelican]

Hi all,

I'd like to know whether there are recommended books on 2/1 for the following very specific topics:

 

- 2nd and 3rd round rebids in NO fit auctions , especially by responder.

 

The reason is the following: after reading a previous thread, I learned that many experts nowadays play that after

1M:2m

2M

 

or, say,

1H:2C

2D:

 

The next step up is not natural but just relaying for knowing more of opener's hand.

Also, 4th suit forcing does not apply since we are in a force anyway.

I suspect there are many more subtleties.

 

Therefore I would like to know whether there are good source boks to study the details of modern approaches to 2/1 :

I do NOT mean the details of 1NT forcing NOR dealing with the various ways to support opener major and/OR deciding whether to drive to slam or game after the major fit was found.

I do mean the details of second round responder's rebid or of 3rd round opener's (and or responder) rebid WHEN WE HAVE NOT FOUND A FIT.

 

I will list below the sources I already have:

 

1) Lawrence's Workbook on 2/1

2) Lawrence's Uncontested auction

3) Lawrence's 2/1 CD

4) Hardy's 2/1

5) Hardy's Standard bidding for the 21st century

6) Hardy's Advanced bidding for the 21st century

7) Fred Gitelman's articles on "Improving 2/1 GF"

8) Better bidding with Bergen

9) Bergen's Understang 1NT forcing (not relevant for the topic of this thread)

 

Do you recommend other sources ?

 

Thanks !

I find that questions like this can often be answered by the use of Truscott's "The Bidding Dictionary." In this case, for instance, I found that the sequence 1H - 2C - 2D - 2H has the following paragraph in a footnote:

 

"A modern treatment is "first-suit" forcing. The two-level preference is a waiting move, not promising support, and opener describes his distribution further. (David Morgan, Bridge World, Feb. 1988.)"

 

This is a wonderful book that allows you to find answers by looking up a bidding sequence. It is a reference book in the truest sense and not a tutorial type of book.

 

Pelican (Bob) :D