Your bid?

[Vampyr]

You are playing in a 24-board match, and were down a lot after the first 12. I can't find the hand record, but I think it was love all. You have:

 

It goes [hv=pc=n&n=sa9532h65dt74c842&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=p1cd1d1sp2hp]133|200[/hv]

 

Do you bid?

[SteveMoe]

Pass. Usual methods partner is 17-19 or so and we have nowhere to go. Double then ♥ tends to imply 5 cards. Partner did not raise my ♠. Will try to gain back IMPs on the next hand.

[Hanoi5]

Could partner be exaggerating? I really hate passing in these situations. And I have an ace... 2♠ for me.

[PhilKing]

If I remember correctly, partner has mis-sorted their hand.

[Lord Molyb]

I pass, hoping my partner doesn't have Kx KQJ10x AKxx x or something similar.

[Vampyr]

If I remember correctly, partner has mis-sorted their hand.

 

Did you think I should have bid 3♥? Is that forcing? How did the auction go at your table? (Please put in a spoiler so I can get unbiased opinions)

[PhilKing]

Did you think I should have bid 3♥? Is that forcing? How did the auction go at your table? (Please put in a spoiler so I can get unbiased opinions)

 

Yes, I think 3♥ is forcing after a free 1♠. But ...

 

 

 

 

.... if you think more laterally, the no trump solution stands out.

 

Our auction was somewhat different as they did not bid 1♦ and Gunnar jumped to 3♥ over 1♠ (an overbid, but NF after a forced response) and we got to a dubious 4♥.

 

Everything is friendly so ♠9 ♥AKJ943 ♦AT5 ♣AQ5 rolls in 10 tricks in hearts or no trumps, but I don't see how to give a choice.

 

Just bid 3NT over 1♠!

 

FWIW, the other table reproduced your auction up to 2♥ and continued 3♥-4♥.

 

 

 

[Vampyr]

So Phil, what do you think of the raise (3♥ from the hand given, for those who haven't read the spoiler)?

[the hog]

No, 3H would not be forcing here, why should it be? I would pass in any case and not bid 3H or 2S.

[lipeng2076]

Pass also for game hopeless

[SteveMoe]

Did you think I should have bid 3♥? Is that forcing? How did the auction go at your table? (Please put in a spoiler so I can get unbiased opinions)

Yes, 3♥ is better. 7 controls, 4 losers (3A-1Q adjusts down 1 loser), 6 card trump suit. With the OP hand I would find the raise to 4♥ straightforward. Helps to take the burden off partner sometimes. Not sure the issue is whether it's forcing rather whether it will help partner make the right decision with useful minimums.

[Codo]

I would not pass 2 ♥. I would try 2 ♠ if I somehow did not promise 5 so far and I would bid a very ugly 3 ♥ if not.

[PhilKing]

So Phil, what do you think of the raise (3♥ from the hand given, for those who haven't read the spoiler)?

 

I would have rebid 2♠, expecting partner to have 3-5 in the majors a lot of the time. That's partly because I don't think one ever doubles and bids 2♥ on a one-suited hand (it's better imo to have no gap between a simple overcall and double followed by a jump when holding six hearts, so 2♥ here denies six). I'm expecting game to be decent opposite three spades and a useful non-min and that partner will pass with 2542 19 counts and similar.

 

I think inviting with 3♥ is too much and misdirected.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

 

Depening on your agreements, partner can expect / borrow a king from you,

take the king away, and you have more than min?

 

Besides, you already showed some live, if you believe the 2H to be nonforcing,

pass (at most bid the suggested 2S).

 

The state of the match has no relevance.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Vampyr]

Depening on your agreements, partner can expect / borrow a king from you,

 

 

I am not quite sure what you are getting at here. Whether partner expects (borrows?) a king in my hand for my free bid, I have an ace, which is hugely better.

[Vampyr]

I would have rebid 2♠, expecting partner to have 3-5 in the majors a lot of the time. That's partly because I don't think one ever doubles and bids 2♥ on a one-suited hand (it's better imo to have no gap between a simple overcall and double followed by a jump when holding six hearts, so 2♥ here denies six). I'm expecting game to be decent opposite three spades and a useful non-min and that partner will pass with 2542 19 counts and similar.

 

I think inviting with 3♥ is too much and misdirected.

 

I think that it is what I would have done, because I would have expected a one-suited hand from partner.

[Vampyr]

Not sure the issue is whether it's forcing rather whether it will help partner make the right decision with useful minimums.

 

This is an important issue, though, because if it is forcing, partner's decision can never be "pass".

[rmnka447]

You made a free bid of 1 ♠ on your first opportunity to respond after the double. So you've certainly bid the value of your hand already.

 

If partner has a hand that makes game opposite a doubleton heart and the ♠ A in my hand, then partner has underbid. In a pinch, partner could cue 2 ♣ -- then bid ♥s or raise ♠s. The other possibility is a jump to 3 ♥ which sort of says -- if you have any good excuse to bid 4, do so.

 

So while 2 ♥ shows a good hand, I'll pass.

[MrAce]

Pass, although it has always been hard for me to pass with an ACE when pd dbls and then bids, especially knowing how high he can start with overcall previous round.

 

When pd doubles and bids a new suit, it means he doesn't promise any length in my suit (or shortness in their suit) anymore. 1633 1624 1642 17xx or 15xx.... for example, whatever your limits for overcall if he has something more than that he will start dbl.

 

Most pdships have their agreements, for example as far as i remember Meckwell set their bar on 18 hcp, 18 being in the middle kinda but rarely they dont' start dbl with 18.

[Charlie Yu]

Pass, 2♥ is never forcing when you have infinite cue bids avaliable.

[P_Marlowe]

I am not quite sure what you are getting at here. Whether partner expects (borrows?) a king in my hand for my free bid, I have an ace, which is hugely better.

Yes, you have an Ace, take away the King, you have a half trick left, you made a free bid, which

shoudl show exactly that (the 5th spades is justification enough), but you dont have more besides,

what you already have shown.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[rhm]

The first question to ask is whether the sequence is forcing.

I'd say yes. Partner showed a hand too strong to overcall immediately and you showed values by bidding when you could have passed instead.

If it is forcing it does not matter whether I have anything left to show or not and whether I feel comfortable keeping the bidding open.

I would bid 2♠

 

Rainer Herrmann

[Vampyr]

The first question to ask is whether the sequence is forcing.

I'd say yes. Partner showed a hand too strong to overcall immediately and you showed values by bidding when you could have passed instead.

If it is forcing it does not matter whether I have anything left to show or not and whether I feel comfortable keeping the bidding open.

I would bid 2♠

 

Rainer Herrmann

 

It is very interesting that you believe that 2♥ is forcing, while other posters do not believe that 3♥ is forcing. The one thing that is certain is that we must form agreements about these sequences.

 

All we had was a default agreement that 3♥ was forcing and 2♥ was not, with no considerations about whether partner had made a free bid.

 

Anyway, this was the hand opposite: ♠9 ♥AKJ943 ♦AT5 ♣AQ5. I contented myself with 2♥, correctly believing it to be non-forcing according to the agreements we had in place, and there we played :( .

[JLOGIC]

Classically a double and bid is forcing opposite a free bid for the reason rainer said so you cannot pass without a specific agreement like vampyr had. However I treat bidding 1h or 1s freely as not creating a force as it should be bid pretty light IMO and also it leaves a lot of room for partners forcing hands anyways.

[JLOGIC]

3h being forcing over 2h is extremely strange to me. Why can't you just invite game? If you had a game bid you could bid game or bid 3d if you had no clear direction.