Free Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Whereagles, THAT is not a hand to bid 1NT with imo. Not because of you lying a HCP (you devil :P ), but because you have ♠s. If it were ♥s, I'd probably agree with the 1NT opener, now I think it's a bad idea B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 I agree I would prefer to have hearts instead. But look at the alternatives to 1NT: a 2♠ on a junk suit or a tame pass. I consider 1NT the lesser evil. 1NT is one of the best openings of bridge. It gives the opening side a superb tactical advantage. It says a lot to partner, who immediately knows what level we belong and frequently what strain, and forces opps to bid at the 2-level. This is why I try and open 1NT as often as possible B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikos59 Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 I believe the main reason people are nowadaysgoing out of their way to open 1NT as often as possible, not only with5 card majors or six card minors, but also with singletons,with one or two points less than the allegedrange (pard, I upgraded the hand, don't yousee this 10-spot?), with one point more thanthe alleged range (with 2 points more, they open2NT), is simpler, albeit unavowable: They want to play the hand themselves. You see, with the current arsenal of transfers, whoeveropens 1NT has overwhelming chances todeclare. n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 I believe the main reason people are nowadaysgoing out of their way to open 1NT as often as possible, not only with5 card majors or six card minors, but also with singletons,with one or two points less than the allegedrange (pard, I upgraded the hand, don't yousee this 10-spot?), with one point more thanthe alleged range (with 2 points more, they open2NT), is simpler, albeit unavowable: They want to play the hand themselves. You see, with the current arsenal of transfers, whoeveropens 1NT has overwhelming chances todeclare. n What a load of RUBISH! The main reason is the preemptive effect! A few weeks ago I was sitting in 3rd seat NV vs V, and I opened 1NT with 14HCP and a 5 card ♥ (playing 15-17 any balanced hand). Result: I got to play that -3, since they couldn't show strong hands due to their conventional interventions, and they couldn't find their 4-4♠ fit! Partner had only 1HCP. The other table found an easy 4♠ after a silly 1♥ opening. Maybe some people bid to play themselves, but these won't be the bridge players you want to learn anything from... I don't think many of the posters here are so selfcentred like these silly people who won't let their partner play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 I believe the main reason people are nowadaysgoing out of their way to open 1NT as often as possible, not only with5 card majors or six card minors, but also with singletons,with one or two points less than the allegedrange (pard, I upgraded the hand, don't yousee this 10-spot?), with one point more thanthe alleged range (with 2 points more, they open2NT), is simpler, albeit unavowable: They want to play the hand themselves. You see, with the current arsenal of transfers, whoeveropens 1NT has overwhelming chances todeclare. n What a load of RUBISH! The main reason is the preemptive effect! A few weeks ago I was sitting in 3rd seat NV vs V, and I opened 1NT with 14HCP and a 5 card ♥ (playing 15-17 any balanced hand). Result: I got to play that -3, since they couldn't show strong hands due to their conventional interventions, and they couldn't find their 4-4♠ fit! Partner had only 1HCP. The other table found an easy 4♠ after a silly 1♥ opening. Maybe some people bid to play themselves, but these won't be the bridge players you want to learn anything from... I don't think many of the posters here are so selfcentred like these silly people who won't let their partner play.Unless we're being hired by someone :P B) :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlPurple Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 maybe because we don't trust them to play them? Maybe because when I'm playing in a BBO Indy and finally get dealt a decent hand, I hope to declare it. If I open 1♦ with KJxxQJxxAKxxx what will partner's response be? 1♥? 1♠? 1NT. And I'll have to raise him, then sit back and watch him misplay it. Much easier to steal a point and open 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikos59 Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 To Free:Your overreaction shows two things,1) You can't spell2) You are shouting probably because my remark hit home Moreover, what you did the other day, 3rd to speak and NV/Vis irrelevant: at 3rd position and fav it is well known that manyopening bids show exactly 13 cards. nikos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted December 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Not that I'm not enjoying the discussion, but it has gone in a rather different angle than I was hoping for. Let me try to swing the discussion back to 5-2-4-2 hands. Some advantages of opening 1NT with 15-17 hands with 2-5-3-3 patterns are obvious: If you open 1H with these hands then you have to rebid a 3-card minor, which is a bit ugly. Many people play that the auction 1H/S-1NT-2C/D shows only three cards. This seems unavoidable when playing a forcing 1NT response. If you play a 14-16 notrump, a semi-forcing 1NT reponse to a major and open 1NT with all balanced hands then you can almost completely solve this problem by passing the balanced 11-13 HCP hands after partner responds 1NT. But what's the advantage of opening a suitable 2-5-2-4 pattern with 1NT? The 4-card suit takes care of a good rebid in the above auctions. However, it will often be hard to describe your strength, and you have a nasty guess in almost any auction where partner shows 6-10 HCP. Opening 1NT saves you this guess. I suspect that there are more advantages.. anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Not that I'm not enjoying the discussion, but it has gone in a rather different angle than I was hoping for. Let me try to swing the discussion back to 5-2-4-2 hands. Some advantages of opening 1NT with 15-17 hands with 2-5-3-3 patterns are obvious: If you open 1H with these hands then you have to rebid a 3-card minor, which is a bit ugly. Many people play that the auction 1H/S-1NT-2C/D shows only three cards. This seems unavoidable when playing a forcing 1NT response. If you play a 14-16 notrump, a semi-forcing 1NT reponse to a major and open 1NT with all balanced hands then you can almost completely solve this problem by passing the balanced 11-13 HCP hands after partner responds 1NT. But what's the advantage of opening a suitable 2-5-2-4 pattern with 1NT? The 4-card suit takes care of a good rebid in the above auctions. However, it will often be hard to describe your strength, and you have a nasty guess in almost any auction where partner shows 6-10 HCP. Opening 1NT saves you this guess. I suspect that there are more advantages.. anybody? Assume you have a 2-5-4-2 hand and partner has less than invitational values. The sort of hands where opening 1NT are better are: Where partner has a non-descript hand with exactly 2♥ as you will often play in 2♥ instead of 1NT Where partner has 4♠ and 6♣ as after 1♥ 1♠ 2♦ partner will be stuck for a bid. Where partner has a subminimum hand with 6♠ as he will pass 1♥ but transfer to 2♠ over 1NT. If you feel that you have an invitational hand after 1♥ 2♥, you may end up in 3♥ down 1 instead of 1NT making There are also gains when partner has a stronger hand. eg: If the bidding starts 1NT 3NT (or even 1NT 6NT) you will have given away much less information than after almost any auction beginning 1♥, and you will probably have right-sided the contract. If partner has a strong 2-suiter he will be able to show his hand much better after a 1NT opening. They may well be other advantages but these are the first few that occurred to me! Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Nikos I think you are way off the mark here. Modern bidding theory suggests that opening 1N with balanced hands makes for far easier auctions. The Italians have been doing this for some time now. B&D open NTs with 5332 M hands, as do Lauria Versace. A "garbage 11-14 NT including all balanced hands is also part of Buratti and Lanzarotti's Nightmare system. To reinforce Ron's point, I should add that even the "Fantunes" go as far as opening *weak* NT with a 5 card major and, judging from the results, they do not seem to suffer too much damage from it....So I guess that used with judgment, NT opening with 5cM cannot be that bad as long as both pards are on the same wavelength... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 [hv=s=sathkjtxxdaxxxckt]133|100|I open 1NT, with this 5-4 despite easy rebid after 1♥ any bid - 2♦[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 To Free:Your overreaction shows two things,1) You can't spell2) You are shouting probably because my remark hit home Moreover, what you did the other day, 3rd to speak and NV/Vis irrelevant: at 3rd position and fav it is well known that manyopening bids show exactly 13 cards. nikos This comment is worth only 1 abbreviation: ROFL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 [hv=s=sathkjtxxdaxxxckt]133|100|I open 1NT, with this 5-4 despite easy rebid after 1♥ any bid - 2♦[/hv] I wont. AAKK are suit oriented, arent they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 [hv=s=sathkjtxxdaxxxckt]133|100|I open 1NT, with this 5-4 despite easy rebid after 1♥ any bid - 2♦[/hv] In 3rd seat, clear 1NT, but not in 1 or 2. You can miss a distributional slam too easy imo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted December 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 [hv=s=sathkjtxxdaxxxckt]133|100|I open 1NT, with this 5-4 despite easy rebid after 1♥ any bid - 2♦[/hv] Why? What is it that makes this hand more suitable for 1NT than for 1H? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 [hv=s=sathkjtxxdaxxxckt]133|100|I open 1NT, with this 5-4 despite easy rebid after 1♥ any bid - 2♦[/hv] Why? What is it that makes this hand more suitable for 1NT than for 1H? weakness of diamonds (Axxx), and stregth of the two short suits.. I value those tens highly. ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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