arrows Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 IMP team, Both Vulholding ♠ K5 ♥ 8754 ♦ AJT95 ♣ 76 Partner open 1♠, RHO overcall 2♦, you pass and pray partner will reopena double, but he reopens 2♥. What is your bid now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrows Posted December 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 The system is assumed SAYC and common sense bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 4h, p can bid again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 4♥. I'll have some kind words for those that venture 3♦ :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 3H for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 If partner's bidding can be trusted I bid 4H. Otherwise a simple 3H will do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 I don't like the "both Vul" overcall with poor ♦s, so I'll just invite with 3♥ and let p decide as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 IMP team, Both Vulholding ♠ K5 ♥ 8754 ♦ AJT95 ♣ 76 Partner open 1♠, RHO overcall 2♦, you pass and pray partner will reopena double, but he reopens 2♥. What is your bid now?To my way of thinking P had a hand with less than 16 points 5♠ and 4 (possibly 5)♥. I would just bid 3♥ as my hand is NOT that crash hot :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 3♥ for me. ♠K and ♦A are good cards, but that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cf_John0 Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 3H is moderate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 4♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 3H.Very few hcp are "working". The Kx of spades is great, sure.A of diamonds is a great holding if opposite a singleton, but the fact that pard did not reopen with a double, suggests he has good chances of holding a diamonds void, in which case our ♦ Ace is close to useless. Not to mention the minor honors in diamonds, which are totally wasted. Aside of that, we provide no useful cards. So, we owe pard a raise, because of the (ugly) ♥ support, but outr honors were by no means reevaluated. The useful honor points are no more than 7, maybe less if pard had the D void. Our 3H raise should show exatctly some decent 7-8 count with support and without great shape, which is what we have: so if he has a 5-losers 55 or 65 in a major OR a genuine reverse in hcp, he'll bid game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junyi_zhu Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 3H.Very few hcp are "working". The Kx of spades is great, sure.A of diamonds is a great holding if opposite a singleton, but the fact that pard did not reopen with a double, suggests he has good chances of holding a diamonds void, in which case our ♦ Ace is close to useless. Not to mention the minor honors in diamonds, which are totally wasted. Aside of that, we provide no useful cards. So, we owe pard a raise, because of the (ugly) ♥ support, but outr honors were by no means reevaluated. The useful honor points are no more than 7, maybe less if pard had the D void. Our 3H raise should show exatctly some decent 7-8 count with support and without great shape, which is what we have: so if he has a 5-losers 55 or 65 in a major OR a genuine reverse in hcp, he'll bid game. SAxxxx HAQxxx Dx Cxx would be enough for a game(trump 2-2 or HK on side), which contains 6 losers, and I don't really think partner should bid 4H here facing a normal 7-8 HCP hand: Sxx HJxxx DQJxxx CAx. So a most scientific bid is 3D here to show a betterinvitation and 4H is probably also OK, but 3H is an underbid because you have 3 cover cards. 4H actually makes facing many 6 loser minimum: SAxxxxx HAKxx Dx Cxx, you need H 3-2 and S 3-2, which qualifies a red 4H. SQTxxxx HKQJx Dx CAx, you also needboth suits break. SAxxxx HAKxx D- CJxxx, you need some luck in majors and friendly leads, but not hopeless. So overally, I believe 3D is the best bid showing a good raiseto 3H, and even if you bid 3D, you still may miss a good game facing some good minimum hands. The assumption here is that I assume 2H show some extra in either HCP or shape(a 6 or less losers hand) and I know why many bid 3H here, because they don't show any extra by 2H here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PriorKnowledge Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Agree 100% with Chamaco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 i don't quite agree, mainly because of his "Very few hcp are "working"." ... they're *all* working... i think this hand is worth 3 tricks, maybe 4... anyway, either 3h or 4h could be correct on any given lie of the cards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 3H only. Why did pd not re open with a X? He has a distributional hand, or perhaps holds a D void. If the latter, my DA is not pulling its full weight. If the former, he will bid 4H himself; besides my Hs are poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Why am I the only one voting for 3♦? For me it is the stronger invitation to 4♥ than 3♥, and so exactly the middle-ground between the popular options of 3♥ and 4♥. What does everyone think would 3♦ mean? Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Why am I the only one voting for 3♦? For me it is the stronger invitation to 4♥ than 3♥, and so exactly the middle-ground between the popular options of 3♥ and 4♥. What does everyone think would 3♦ mean? Arend As I mentioned in the other post, 3♦ is natural. Marshall Miles mentioned this in one of the Southern Cal Bridge News columns a number of years ago. He was adamant that 3♦ should be natural and most of the others agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Pass is clearcut. Pard didn't jump - that and they could easily have hands like QT9xx AKxx -- Kxxx where the king of clubs is dubious at best. I'm assuming pard does NOT have what I need to get this to a razor thin game. That, and I refuse to make game invites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Partner didn´t reopen with double so I´m afraid of a ♦K-♦A-ruff lead. 3♥ is enough to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 i don't quite agree, mainly because of his "Very few hcp are "working"." ... they're *all* working... i think this hand is worth 3 tricks, maybe 4... anyway, either 3h or 4h could be correct on any given lie of the cards What I meant with "very few hcp are working " is: - Ace of diamonds has high likely hood to nbe wasted in case of p holding a void (very likely since he did not balance with double)- JT of diamonds are totally wasted, and besides we risk ruffs there- K of spades is good but in general, offensive hands have honors in long suits, which can develop tricks: here AJTxx are in THEIR suit, so no big plus, and the other long suit (hearts) has terrible holding. So perhaps not totally wasted but certainly my 8 hcp should be - deevaluated in terms of of the JT of diamonds (they won't count)- maybe deevaluated in terms of the A of diamonds- reevaluated in terms of the K of spades.- no extras for the fit because of xxxx support; give me the T or J there and I might be more optimistic So, all inn all, I would evaulate this hand as exactly 8 hcp, no more, no less.To me, a hand worth 8 hcp with fit is worth a single raise, so I bid 3H; if pard likes his hand he will bid on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 i don't quite agree, mainly because of his "Very few hcp are "working"." ... they're *all* working... i think this hand is worth 3 tricks, maybe 4... anyway, either 3h or 4h could be correct on any given lie of the cards What I meant with "very few hcp are working " is: - Ace of diamonds has high likely hood to nbe wasted in case of p holding a void (very likely since he did not balance with double)- JT of diamonds are totally wasted, and besides we risk ruffs there- K of spades is good but in general, offensive hands have honors in long suits, which can develop tricks: here AJTxx are in THEIR suit, so no big plus, and the other long suit (hearts) has terrible holding. So perhaps not totally wasted but certainly my 8 hcp should be - deevaluated in terms of of the JT of diamonds (they won't count)- maybe deevaluated in terms of the A of diamonds- reevaluated in terms of the K of spades.- no extras for the fit because of xxxx support; give me the T or J there and I might be more optimistic So, all inn all, I would evaulate this hand as exactly 8 hcp, no more, no less.To me, a hand worth 8 hcp with fit is worth a single raise, so I bid 3H; if pard likes his hand he will bid on. The ACE of diamonds is not necessarily wasted even if partner has a void. Partner will have some number of clubs. If he has, Ax of clubs and 6-5 in the majors, assuming we have a quick entry to dummy in spades, the club ACE (if they fail to lead a club) provides a home for a club loser. The AJT of diamonds also can keep partenr from being "forced" on repeated diamond leads. So don't discount the ♦AJT as much as you do. True, I would rather have these hcp elsewhere, but for sure they are wasted? No, they could turn out to be very useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 3♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 So don't discount the ♦AJT as much as you do. True, I would rather have these hcp elsewhere, but for sure they are wasted? No, they could turn out to be very useful. All In all I am saying that even in the best case scenario (no D void), the hand is worth 8 hcp and not more (as it would if AJTxx were in OUR suit). I believe this warrants a single raise but no more :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 So don't discount the ♦AJT as much as you do. True, I would rather have these hcp elsewhere, but for sure they are wasted? No, they could turn out to be very useful. All In all I am saying that even in the best case scenario (no D void), the hand is worth 8 hcp and not more (as it would if AJTxx were in OUR suit). I believe this warrants a single raise but no more :-) No problem.. I only bid 3♥ too... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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