Too quick autokick?

[Raynilzero]

Recently, I've found that there's new system I called "inactivity autokick" which is different than previously used "You'll be removed for inactivity" system.

 

Here's the event:

I was playing at a table in the Main Bridge Club on BBO with my friend as a host. When my opponents created the previously non-existent squeeze possibility so I began to think. approximately 2 minutes later I received a message from BBO saying "It's your turn, Raynilzero. Please play" so my concentration was disturbed and approximately another 2 minutes later I got kicked out of the table by BBO.(I'm sure my friend didn't.)

 

Later, I rejoined, and went to the toilet for about 5 minutes during the bidding, and get kicked again.(and I saw that message,too.)

 

Personally, I agree with the system which can kick AFKs but I'm not AFK and the timer is way too fast.(May be 5 min warning and 10 min kick is the minimum duration)

[Raynilzero]

And please don't criticize me for "just joined today". I've just login to BBO forums for the first time(so I can post) but I've played on BBO for approximately 7 years.

 

(sorry for my bad grammar)

[G_Bucci]

I agree - the response trigger is too quick. received messages to play almost back to back. Plus it loooks like the host is telling another player to hurry up. That's just rude!

Please slow this down...or at least make it optional

[paulg]

I'm sure BBO and Uday will see this thread, but one started yesterday and there is official comment from BBO - http://www.bridgebas...-warning-on-bbo

[Raynilzero]

Ok, I haven't noticed that. Sorry for repeating the thread.

[barmar]

Personally, I agree with the system which can kick AFKs but I'm not AFK and the timer is way too fast.(May be 5 min warning and 10 min kick is the minimum duration)

5 and 10 minutes!? Who wants to wait for someone who has disappeared for that long? You can normally play 2 or 3 hands in that time. I think most hosts would have booted you long before then, unless you're playing with friends and they know you'll come back.

 

If you have to leave for a few minutes (to take a phone call, for instance), click on "Be Right Back" and you won't be booted. And if the table host doesn't want his friends to be booted, he can add +slow+ to the table description.

[jillybean]

Where do you click to set "BRB" on the web version?

 

I hope this new feature is host configurable or at minimum the host is able to turn it on/off. We aren't all speedball freaks.

[barmar]

Where do you click to set "BRB" on the web version?

Click on "Who's Online" in the right sidebar, and it's below the player list.

I hope this new feature is host configurable or at minimum the host is able to turn it on/off. We aren't all speedball freaks.

Hasn't this been answered in the other thread? Full details are in the BBO Today article.

 

And 80 seconds for a bid or play is hardly "speedball". You don't even have to make a play, you just have to move the mouse (new version) or click on something (old version), so the server knows you're still there.

[FM75]

Click on "Who's Online" in the right sidebar, and it's below the player list.

 

Hasn't this been answered in the other thread? Full details are in the BBO Today article.

 

And 80 seconds for a bid or play is hardly "speedball". You don't even have to make a play, you just have to move the mouse (new version) or click on something (old version), so the server knows you're still there.

 

 

In my experience, most people have a hard time solving problems when they fail to carefully define the problem.

 

This looks like a good example. What is the problem that autobooting is trying to solve?

 

Slow play? Dead tables?

 

Two similar problems in one respect.

 

Slow play. There has been a good suggestion on another thread. BBO creates a "speedball club" for players that want to play fast - regardless of skill :).

 

Dead table. A "dead table" is one where the HOST is AWOL - gone - and there is an empty seat. Note the definition! When the host is there and 3 other players are playing, the table is not dead. They are all aware. (Maybe all four are nailed to their perches - but that does not matter!)

 

A dead table is a problem. It has at least one empty seat! A prospective player selecting "take me to the first available seat" ends up at a dead table. After waiting for some period of time, and maybe a few "chats" the prospective player starts whistling in the graveyard and leaves the table. After waiting for 15 seconds, that player click the button - yes - that button. BAM - BBO seats the poor schmuck at the recently vacated (unexcavated) table.

 

Hopefully with this description of the problem, it will be clear that removing the table owner is the solution. Booting one of the other 3 players can be done by the table owner - if he is awake. If he is not, there will soon be an empty seat - a necessary condition for a dead table.

[andyroddy]

I hate this new modification?

[andyroddy]

Can I turn it off?

[andyroddy]

I find it unnecessary and actively offensive!!

[klutzygirl]

We play strictly with GIBs and even there we get kicked out! And it is not 5 minutes, it's about 1.5 minutes. BBO has been our most fun place for years, but now it's ruined. We can no longer talk over our bids, or think about what we want to do; like someone else said it breaks our concentration. We just want to relax in our jammies, have fun, and improve our game. If someone WANTS to play fast, let them. Don't FORCE them!!

 

What further upsets me is I have BBO $$ in the bank to buy more robot time and now I want to quit BBO. Do I get my money back?? Where can I get some answers to all this? Emails only result in automated responses. Time to check out OKBridge and hunt for other sites.

[jillybean]

We started a set game tonight, one of the players was away for a while (90 secs?) and was removed, the host could do nothing to stop it. This happened a couple of times to various players over the evening, they managed to avoid being removed but the message/threat is distracting and unnecessary, we know they are considering their line of play. They are some of the better players in this city and I'm sure that I and many others could learn a few things from them, like slow down and think. Why do we always expect players to rush online? Will the same inactivity timer be set for team games (and those playing on vugraph? :) ) or is it only tables in the MBC?

 

I understand that dead hosts cause a problem and an inactivity timer here is very useful. Could the option be configurable by the table host and then turned on by players if the host becomes unresponsive?

 

Please dont enforce this inactivity timer on all players.

[zenko]

All I can say is that only a non-bridge player person can come up with this kind of "brilliant" feature.

[barmar]

In my experience, most people have a hard time solving problems when they fail to carefully define the problem.

 

This looks like a good example. What is the problem that autobooting is trying to solve?

 

Slow play? Dead tables?

 

Two similar problems in one respect.

 

Slow play. There has been a good suggestion on another thread. BBO creates a "speedball club" for players that want to play fast - regardless of skill :).

No, this has nothing to do with slow play. It's about players who seem to have walked away from their computer, and they're preventing everyone else from continuing the game.

 

I know you're going to say "The host can boot them". Uday already explained why we don't consider that adequate. It's in the other thread.

 

Dead table. A "dead table" is one where the HOST is AWOL - gone - and there is an empty seat. Note the definition! When the host is there and 3 other players are playing, the table is not dead. They are all aware. (Maybe all four are nailed to their perches - but that does not matter!)

 

A dead table is a problem. It has at least one empty seat! A prospective player selecting "take me to the first available seat" ends up at a dead table. After waiting for some period of time, and maybe a few "chats" the prospective player starts whistling in the graveyard and leaves the table. After waiting for 15 seconds, that player click the button - yes - that button. BAM - BBO seats the poor schmuck at the recently vacated (unexcavated) table.

 

Hopefully with this description of the problem, it will be clear that removing the table owner is the solution. Booting one of the other 3 players can be done by the table owner - if he is awake. If he is not, there will soon be an empty seat - a necessary condition for a dead table.

We already had this in place. Every 10 minutes, we look for tables that have had a large number of players joining and leaving recently, but no results produced, and boot the host.

 

But it's not a very good solution. First, during that 10 minute period lots of players get inconvenienced, being put in the dead table. Second, players don't want to wait up to 10 minutes for the host at their own table to be booted. As soon as it becomes obvious to them that the host is stuck, they call a yellow and ask for him to be removed.

 

This is what we're trying to automate.

[barmar]

Can I turn it off?

Yes. The table host can put "+slow+" in the table description.

[barmar]

We play strictly with GIBs and even there we get kicked out! And it is not 5 minutes, it's about 1.5 minutes. BBO has been our most fun place for years, but now it's ruined. We can no longer talk over our bids, or think about what we want to do; like someone else said it breaks our concentration. We just want to relax in our jammies, have fun, and improve our game. If someone WANTS to play fast, let them. Don't FORCE them!!

 

What further upsets me is I have BBO $$ in the bank to buy more robot time and now I want to quit BBO. Do I get my money back?? Where can I get some answers to all this? Emails only result in automated responses. Time to check out OKBridge and hunt for other sites.

It won't happen to a table with one human and 3 robots. But if there are 2 or 3 humans, and robots filling in the other seats, we'll boot the humans who get stuck.

 

As mentioned several times, put "+slow+" in the table description and it won't happen.

[barmar]

All I can say is that only a non-bridge player person can come up with this kind of "brilliant" feature.

All the BBO programmers are avid bridge players.

 

And the commentary in the BBO Today article has been overwhelmingly positive, so it doesn't seem like we're out of touch.

[barmar]

I understand that dead hosts cause a problem and an inactivity timer here is very useful. Could the option be configurable by the table host and then turned on by players if the host becomes unresponsive?

At the risk of repeating myself, the host can put +slow+ in the table description to turn it off.

 

And if a player knows he's stepping away from the computer for a few minutes, he can click on "Be Right Back" to prevent being booted.

[klutzygirl]

Obviously, barmar, no matter what anyone says, all you're going to do is defend your position. You are not listening. It's clear that not everyone likes this new "feature," and with thousands of players it's ridiculous to expect that everyone would. Find a way to make it completely optional, such as three playing clubs. It's my understanding that typing +slow+ merely doubles the time; that is not acceptable either. Frankly, my partner and I would rather play with humans than GIBs, but the rudeness of speed freaks killed our fun. He's a good player but has trouble typing. How about banning speed demons from the Relaxed club and giving them one where slow players are banned? Sounds like a win-win to me.

[barmar]

Obviously, barmar, no matter what anyone says, all you're going to do is defend your position. You are not listening. It's clear that not everyone likes this new "feature," and with thousands of players it's ridiculous to expect that everyone would. Find a way to make it completely optional, such as three playing clubs. It's my understanding that typing +slow+ merely doubles the time; that is not acceptable either. Frankly, my partner and I would rather play with humans than GIBs, but the rudeness of speed freaks killed our fun. He's a good player but has trouble typing. How about banning speed demons from the Relaxed club and giving them one where slow players are banned? Sounds like a win-win to me.

Actually, +slow+ tripled the time. So 80 seconds to play becomes 240. That's more than half the time usually alloted for play of an entire hand in f2f bridge games (generally about 7 minutes/board).

 

Just so you know, my personal inclination was to just use this for stuck hosts, not other players. I've never been called as a yellow to help boot a stuck player, so it doesn't seem to me that hosts are that clueless about running the table. But I don't get called as much as the regular yellows -- I often login invisible to avoid being bothered when I just want to play a few rounds of robot bridge. If Uday believes this is a common problem, I assume he knows what he's talking about -- he's the boss, and he's been here longer than I have.

 

As far as giving the host and players more control over features like this, we're often constrained by the limitations of the old BBO version. Anything that involves changes in the client (like a new "Boot Host" voting feature) will only work in the new version, since we're absolutely not making any changes to the old version.