Responding to Stayman with 4-4 majors

[gnasher]

Given how detailed the EBU alerting rules are, we're only talking about variations at the margins.

 

Here's an example of a bid where my alerting might vary with the opponents:

1

♦

pass 1

♠

2

♣

3

♠

I usually play that a raise based on high cards would bid 3♣ or 2NT, so 3♠ is semi-preemptive. Arguably this is not alertable, because you don't alert a bid where "the partnership has an agreement over alternative possible calls

that affect this one, unless it is in another alertable category." However, the qualification "unless it is in another alertable category" might mean that it is alertable, because the meaning is "potentially unexpected".

 

Most strong British players would be aware of the likely meaning of 3♠, so I tend to alert only against lesser players, overseas visitors, and people I don't know.

[aguahombre]

Most strong British players would be aware of the likely meaning of 3♠, so I tend to alert only against lesser players, overseas visitors, and people I don't know.

Strong players, IMO, are the ones most likely to appreciate and understand these alerts. Being aware of a certain possible "unexpected" inference does not mean awareness that YOU are using that method. The "lesser" players (your words), AKA, less experienced/sophisticated players are also less likely to be able to make any use of the disclosure. So, we will alert in those grey areas "when in doubt" ---the doubt is not about our agreements or about the wording of the alert procedures; the doubt is about whether the opponents might need to know.

[bluejak]

Certainly we are in different countries: you are in the London area, which is more scientific and Americanised than the rest of the country. As I have said, if you play a specific continuation then you respond hearts first: I doubt one in 20 plays anything like that around here.

 

As for the Midlands, I would guess they are more like my area than yours, but why would I know? Why the Midlands?

[Vampyr]

I was thinking more the reverse. I'd expect 2♠ on 4-4 to be desperately unusual in a club and hence alertable there, but possibly not in a national event.

 

I think this is a question that should be clarified, is it intended that the same bid is alertable/non alertable in different events ?

I agree that you would be much more likely to find this agreement at a national event than at a club (apart from bluejak's club). I do think that it would be unusual and unexpected in any English event, and think it should be alerted, and to your question I feel that the answer is "no", but I could possibly be convinced otherwise if shown good examples.

 

Strong players, IMO, are the ones most likely to appreciate and understand these alerts. Being aware of a certain possible "unexpected" inference does not mean awareness that YOU are using that method. The "lesser" players (your words), AKA, less experienced/sophisticated players are also less likely to be able to make any use of the disclosure. So, we will alert in those grey areas "when in doubt" ---the doubt is not about our agreements or about the wording of the alert procedures; the doubt is about whether the opponents might need to know.

 

Well put.

[Vampyr]

As for the Midlands, I would guess they are more like my area than yours, but why would I know? Why the Midlands?

 

I am ashamed to say that my knowledge of English regions and terminology is very poor. I thought Merseyside was part of the Midlands. :blink:

[helene_t]

I was surprised when I learned that the London-Midlands service connects London to Liverpool.

[barmar]

Strong players, IMO, are the ones most likely to appreciate and understand these alerts. Being aware of a certain possible "unexpected" inference does not mean awareness that YOU are using that method. The "lesser" players (your words), AKA, less experienced/sophisticated players are also less likely to be able to make any use of the disclosure. So, we will alert in those grey areas "when in doubt" ---the doubt is not about our agreements or about the wording of the alert procedures; the doubt is about whether the opponents might need to know.

On the other hand, strong players may be less likely to assume that their way is the only way. So they'll know that there's a wide variety of ways that a convention is played, and can ask questions if they need to know which variant is in use by the opps. Weak players need everything spoon-fed to them, because they don't know that they don't know; they might not be able to make effective use of the information, but that's not your problem.

[bluejak]

I am ashamed to say that my knowledge of English regions and terminology is very poor. I thought Merseyside was part of the Midlands. :blink:

Eeek!

 

Scotland

North [including Merseyside]

Midlands

South

English Channel

 

I was surprised when I learned that the London-Midlands service connects London to Liverpool.

London Midlands is a train service that runs in the Midlands with some trains feeding out of the Midlands towards various other places, eg Liverpool, London, Wales. One service a day connects London with Liverpool, true, but no-one would travel on it for that reason, it is just designed to connect various cities en route.

[aguahombre]

And on those trainrides, you have time to discuss Stayman?

[gordontd]

I am ashamed to say that my knowledge of English regions and terminology is very poor. I thought Merseyside was part of the Midlands. :blink:

Eeek!

 

Scotland

North [including Merseyside]

Midlands

South

English Channel

I think the Eeek! you will get from the Scots for describing their country as part of England will be much louder and angrier than that provoked in you by suggesting that Liverpool is in the Midlands!

[paulg]

I am ashamed to say that my knowledge of English regions and terminology is very poor. I thought Merseyside was part of the Midlands. :blink:

Eeek!

 

Scotland

North [including Merseyside]

Midlands

South

English Channel

As anyone who watches the BBC Weather knows, the UK consists of London, the South-East, and suburbs of London, some of which may be north of Watford and without Tube stations. The BBC remains that biggest supporter of devolution in 2014 without even realising it.

[gnasher]

As anyone who watches the BBC Weather knows, the UK consists of London, the South-East, and suburbs of London, some of which may be north of Watford and without Tube stations.

Isn't this because we already know that it's going to rain in Manchester and snow in Scotland, supposing that anyone there is sober enough to care?

[NickRW]

As anyone who watches the BBC Weather knows, the UK consists of London, the South-East, and suburbs of London, some of which may be north of Watford and without Tube stations. The BBC remains that biggest supporter of devolution in 2014 without even realising it.

 

They must broadcast this subversive version especially to Scotland. The version I get down here gets quite a lot of attention outside the London area!

 

Or perhaps it is a question of perception. When I lived in Ipswich, my father would comment that the local News slots (BBC and ITV as well) were the "Norwich" News.

 

Anyway, Scotland will be a nuclear free foreign country soon.

 

As for Merseyside being in the Midlands, I can only say that it is good job that my Scouse born good lady doesn't play bridge and therefore doesn't read this forum.

 

Nick

[NickRW]

Isn't this because we already know that it's going to rain in Manchester and snow in Scotland, supposing that anyone there is sober enough to care?

 

Ouch. I may be English - but I've lived and worked in Scotland - and, hmm, well if this was football, that would be "inappropriate" language.

[Cyberyeti]

Isn't this because we already know that it's going to rain in Manchester and snow in Scotland, supposing that anyone there is sober enough to care?

The ones that have had insufficient Buckfast (or Tennent's super) on the street corner and still care are unable to hear the forecast over the sounds of their Mars bars deep frying :)

[Zelandakh]

The ones that have had insufficient Buckfast (or Tennent's super) on the street corner and still care are unable to hear the forecast over the sounds of their Mars bars deep frying :)

For those that do not get this reference, watch

from 6:22.

 

As far as the weath forecast goes, I believe some statistics were done on this and it is indeed a matter of perception. FWiiW, I have lived in both Manchester and Scotland. In both places the locals thought there was a strong London bias and my own (imho somewhat less biased) appraisal of this matched that of the statisticians. Also, as someone born near Wigan I object strongly to the North being a single region - no Lancastrian should ever be forced to be in the same grouping as a Yorkist. Similarly, as someone who lived for many years in Dorset I object to being lumped in with London - North West and South West please!

[blackshoe]

Perhaps "British regions" - but then you'd have to include Wales — and Cornwall if it's not considered part of some other region ("South"?) And Scotland, of course, is comprised of the Highlands and the Lowlands.

 

Forgive me if I got it wrong. I am, after all, one of those barbarians from the wrong side of the Pond! B-)

[paulg]

Forgive me if I got it wrong. I am, after all, one of those barbarians from the wrong side of the Pond! B-)

Please, non-criminal colonial is fine.

[Cyberyeti]

Please, non-criminal colonial is fine.

Thought that was reserved for Canadians :)

[Zelandakh]

Please, non-criminal colonial is fine.

I prefer followers of the terrorist leader Washington. We needed a proper war on terror in the 1700s!

[aguahombre]

I prefer followers of the terrorist leader Washington. We needed a proper war on terror in the 1700s!

We waged one. The terrorists aren't always the smaller entity.

[mycroft]

I was going to mention that my Geordie ancestors are spinning in their graves at "Oop North" including anything out West. They're probably some upset at me lumping them in with those bastard Tynesiders, but from 6000 miles away,...

[lalldonn]

This probably takes the record for most random thread drift I have ever seen. It's mildly entertaining though.

[bluejak]

I think the Eeek! you will get from the Scots for describing their country as part of England will be much louder and angrier than that provoked in you by suggesting that Liverpool is in the Midlands!

If you care to look again at my small geography lesson there was no suggestion that Scotland was part of England any more than the English Channel is.

[paua]

Eeek!

 

Scotland

North [including Merseyside]

Midlands

South

English Channel

 

So, is Kent in "South" or "English Channel" ? Hampshire ?

Norfolk ?

 

What about Somerset ? Wiltshire ? Gloucestershire ?

 

and Wales ... ?