Finch Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 From the same match as the other one, but this time you are our opponents [hv=pc=n&s=sajt74h7dq852c753&d=e&v=0&b=1&a=2np3np4cp4hp5dp6cppp]133|200[/hv] 2NT = good 20 - bad 223NT = 5+ clubs, forces 4C4H = 4 spades, 5+ clubs5D = cue for clubs Your lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Declarer has a monster hand and I can't think of a monster hand that gets so excited for slam without spade doubleton or maybe ♠KQx, this means ♠A cannot work. Our tricks are slow Declarer could have something like ♠Kx ♥Axxx ♦AKJ ♣AQxx where diamond is fatal, for a diamond to be required declarer must have 2425 with ♠xx and ♦Ax, that's too specific, I will just go for trump and hope declarer missguesses whatever he must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewj Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Yeh, I'm a passive trump lead as well. Ace of spades could have been right to give a ruff but if that's the case I stand a chance of two tricks there, with my DQ and ♥ not breaking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I don't want to lead a club because they might be missing Q♣.I think I would try A♠. Sometimes we ruff, sometimes they are missing AK. Sometimes we have Q♣ and they have to guess it.I don't think they necessary have 9+clubs. Opener with xx AKQxx AKx Axx/Qx AQJx AKJx Axx would probably bid the same (if they open 2NT with that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I don't agree with Fluffy's take that declarer has a monster. I assume that dummy's bidding announced some slam interest and that with lesser values dummy would have invoked a staymanish 3 level call. Otherwise 5♦seems too unilateral. So I place declarer with no more than a 'good hand in context'. As it is, I place declarer as almost always holding the spade K (in fact at the table I would have asked whether 5♦implied anything about the spade suit). I still don't lead a spade since I may recover from losing a ruff when spades are 5413 around the table but am morally certain that I can't recover when partner holds xx in spades. I'm not leading a heart. Partner could have doubled with some chunky heart holdings and, anyway, why pick up the suit for declarer, as may happen. I'm closer to a heart than to a diamond. I'm not leading a diamond for obvious reasons. I can't imagine being often able both to build a diamond trick and being able to enjoy it....they rate to hold very good hearts if they hold weakish diamonds and dummy has at most 4 red cards. So a club it is, from a process of elimination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Edited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I don't want to lead a club because they might be missing Q♣. How many clubs do you think the 5♦ bidder has?, if its only 3 they must be AKx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I do not think a slow defense and a safe trump lead is likely to work. Dummy will not have bid 3NT with 5 poor clubs and declarer forced to slam with 5♦. They have a good club fit and dummy is more likely to come down with 6 of them. Otherwise a Stayman sequence would be more normal.It is odds-on that dummy will get 2 spade discards, if needed on the red suits.Going for a spade ruff or (less likely) possibly two fast spade tricks is our best bet. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted October 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 They have a good club fit and dummy is more likely to come down with 6 of them. Otherwise a Stayman sequence would be more normal. If dummy has a slam try with 5 clubs and 4 spades, this is how they bid.Going via Stayman & then bidding clubs would only show 4 of them. The only reason that dummy is more likely to have 6 clubs than 5 is that more 6-4 hands are slam tries than 5-4 hands with the same number of high cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VM1973 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 If partner has a club or heart trick then he's either always getting it or you'll screw it up by leading the suit, so I see no point in leading either of those suits. If it's matchpoints there's good logic supporting just banging down the ♠A and hoping that maybe 0 overtricks is Avg+ If, on the other hand, you think you need to beat the contract then you should play a low diamond hoping to find partner with ♦K and an entry either in trumps or you get in with the ♠A to cash the setting trick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 p rates to have a max of around 3 hcp. If p has the dia K we may have no chance no matterwhat we do since a low dia lead might set up a ruffing finesse in dia. If p has the club K it iseither a trick or not. If p has the heart K we are toast. If p has the spade K however there isa very good chance we need to lead the spade A at trick 1 and continue spades. The opps far too often will score 6c 4h 2d before we ever get another chance to collect our spade tricks. Another reason for a spade is the bidding lho rates 2h max rho 4h max p has 6+ hearts3/4 dia a club or 2 not much room left for spades even if p has nothing we can still set ifthe very strong hand got excited about slam with KQx spades (sorry Fluffy) becasue p can ruff (hopefully). Finally leading the spade A might be the only way to keep opps from making 7 if p is broke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Dummy has four spades and declarer has two or three? I'm a simple soul and going for a spadE ruff...anything else is over thinking it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 If dummy has a slam try with 5 clubs and 4 spades, this is how they bid.Going via Stayman & then bidding clubs would only show 4 of them. The only reason that dummy is more likely to have 6 clubs than 5 is that more 6-4 hands are slam tries than 5-4 hands with the same number of high cards.I do not get your point.If you exclude 3NT as a final contract immediately over 2NT, how can you do that with 5 clubs and 4 spades, unless you have strong slam aspirations? Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted November 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 I do not get your point.If you exclude 3NT as a final contract immediately over 2NT, how can you do that with 5 clubs and 4 spades, unless you have strong slam aspirations? Rainer Herrmann You said that dummy is likely to have 6 clubs, as otherwise responder would have gone via Stayman.I am saying that isn't the case. If responder has a slam try with 5 clubs and 4 spades, this is how they would bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 AS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 I do not get your point.If you exclude 3NT as a final contract immediately over 2NT, how can you do that with 5 clubs and 4 spades, unless you have strong slam aspirations? Rainer Herrmannthey need (I assume) no more than the values to stop safely in 4N with no black suit fit, so I don't understand your objections Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 they need (I assume) no more than the values to stop safely in 4N with no black suit fit, so I don't understand your objectionsIf 4NT is safe why introduce clubs unless you have serious aspirations scoring more in a club contract, that means at least 12 tricks? The opposite is not true. 12 tricks may well be lay-down opposite a fit when you hold 5 clubs and 4 spades, but there maybe no game past 3NT when opener does not fit. What this means is that bidding like that works only if the 5 card club suit is quite strong and should run opposite a doubleton honor.Claiming that most hands with 5 clubs and 4 spades can afford bypassing 3NT contradicts in my opinion Bridge logic. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 What this means is that bidding like that works only if the 5 card club suit is quite strong and should run opposite a doubleton honor.Claiming that most hands with 5 clubs and 4 spades can afford bypassing 3NT contradicts in my opinion Bridge logic. Rainer HerrmannThat is a classic strawman argument. Nobody....absolutely nobody...has suggested that the given sequence would be used by most hands with 5 clubs and 4 spades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted November 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 At the table, the player with this hand (Tony Forrester) led the ace of spades.Good news... partner had a singleton spadeBad news... partner had a trump void Any non-spade lead beats it. They have two spade losers. The more I think about the hand, the more I think the spade lead was right, even though it failed on this occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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