Double fit

[gnasher]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq86hq96dq92ct742&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=pp1h2h(Spades%20+%20diamonds)3s(Splinter)]133|200[/hv]

IMPs. 2♥ showed spades and diamonds, any strength.

[TimG]

4♠

[lalldonn]

Double seems fine to me.

[CarlRitner]

not sure quite what double shows but it feels safer than 4S.

[SteveMoe]

4♠

We have a double fit and the green light U/V.

[Fluffy]

just double

[dake50]

3S: splinter raise means they are looking up.

I'll try 4S. Leave them no Q-bid below keys-ask.

Their guess.

[JLOGIC]

I'll bid 4S, it will often make it hard for them to make up for the times we go down a lot lol.

[Trinidad]

Another one for 4♠

 

Rik

[rogerclee]

I would just double, it seems like unless partner has some extras that playing a 5-3 spade fit with spades breaking 4-1 is asking for a disaster.

[rhm]

4♠

 

This is unlikely to be more expensive than their game.

DBL gives opponents additional options in a slam inviting auction, e.g whether opener has the spade ace or RHO a void.

I'd rather Pass than DBL.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[rogerclee]

I'd rather Pass than DBL.

You would rather pass, telling partner not to save while still giving them the whole 4 level, than double, suggesting that partner bids if he finds his hand appropriate? You are a highly logical guy, surely you can work out that this makes no sense.

[Trinidad]

In a not so obvious way, Dbl also takes away bidding room for the opponents.

 

Granted, they get more room now, since they can pass or redouble to show whatever they want it to mean. But if the double is all partner needs to bid 4♠, he will bid it and the bidding room has been taken away.

 

Of course, Dbl doesn't take away as much room as a direct 4♠ bid, but when viewed as a whole -as an "average of the possible continuations"- it gives the opponents less room than pass.

 

Rik

[jogs]

Just like your other thread. What two suiter? This hand is 4333.

Need 3=2=4=4 to be considered a two suiter.

 

4♠ only because of favorable vulnerability. Would pass on the other three vulnerabilities.

Seems like the spades are likely to be 5=1=3=4 around the table. Opener gets only one chance

to decide whether to double 4♠ or bid 5♥. If you reach 4♠ by some slow method

opener would have room to exchange more info on the hand.

[PhilKing]

This hand seem to have generated a whole lotta love.

 

If partner has ♠KJTxx ♥x ♦AKxxx ♣xx you are going for either 800 or 1100 and they are almost certainly settling for game if you pass. And 1400 is not out of the question ♠KJTxx ♥x ♦KJxxx ♣Qx.

[rhm]

This hand seem to have generated a whole lotta love.

 

If partner has ♠KJTxx ♥x ♦AKxxx ♣xx you are going for either 800 or 1100 and they are almost certainly settling for game if you pass. And 1400 is not out of the question ♠KJTxx ♥x ♦KJxxx ♣Qx.

Granted that spades will break 4-1 are you seriously suggesting that you as declarer would take just 4 tricks holding

 

♠KJTxx ♥x ♦KJxxx ♣Qx opposite ♠Q96 ♥Q86 ♦Q92 ♣T742

 

I trust your declarer skills are not that bad.

A 5-0 break is almost impossible given the auction with these two hands.

If you go down for 800 you would be unlucky if slam in hearts would not be on.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[kenrexford]

If my only goal is to interfere, 4♠ stands out.

 

However, in thinking this through a bit more, I kind of like 4♦.

 

 

1. Partner might have 5♠/6♦

 

2. Opener likely has spade length with diamond shortness and would therefore be unlikely to double 4♦.

 

3. 4♦ does take up a lot of space.

 

4. If partner is on lead with K-J or K-10 in diamonds, my call helps

 

5. Partner probably will know that I have three spades anyway if I bid 4♦, because Opener is unlikely to have 5♠/6♥

 

 

 

This last point is perhaps the most interesting. If Responder splinters in spades after a Michaels-type call showing spades, the spade fit is fairly well established already. This should have some impact on bidding theory.

[han]

Ken, you make good points for the 4D call, but aren't you afraid that your partner will play you for diamond shortness and will try to give you a ruff?

[kenrexford]

Ken, you make good points for the 4D call, but aren't you afraid that your partner will play you for diamond shortness and will try to give you a ruff?

I tend to bid where I live. If I live in diamond ruff land, I bid my trumps (4H).

[gnasher]

I tend to bid where I live. If I live in diamond ruff land, I bid my trumps (4H).

What would you do if you were bidding 4♠ to make and wanted to involve partner in any decision over 5♥?

[Codo]

4 ♠,

Kens reasons are good but will you really sell out to 4 ♥? And if you don't, you better bid 4 ♠ now, not later.

[kenrexford]

What would you do if you were bidding 4♠ to make and wanted to involve partner in any decision over 5♥?

 

 

To some degree, all calls help this cause. 4♦ shows a 4♠ call with diamond support also; 4♥ shows a 4♠ call with diamond shortness; and 4♣ shows a 4♠ call with club shortness. These should help partner decide.

 

 

But, I also would have a difference between 4♠ and 3NT. 4♠ shows a get-to-4♠-quick hand, while 3NT is delayed and hence ongoing, with no side-suit inferences stated. In a sense, 3NT is the "power raise" in the same sense that many play 2NT in competition as a stronger raise of the suit opened than bidding three of the suit. In those parallel situations, a cuebid also usually shows a power raise, admittedly. But, I need a way to stress "trumps," anf the 4♥ cue sounds more like "trumps" than 3NT to me.