Was this 2 spades too aggressive

[dwar0123]

2/1 Matchpoints

[hv=pc=n&s=sa87632h6dt974c74&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1c2s]133|200[/hv]

[Fluffy]

I think so, not because of the overall strenght, but because of the ace empty suit, Axxxxx has very low ODR. If you had ♠KJxxxxx 2♠ would be more attractive, and also if you had hearts instead of spades, with spades you can pass and come back most of the time (wich you will if its a partscore all white)

[SteveMoe]

Agreeing Fluffy. Impatient, not aggressive.

[ggwhiz]

I agree too. Pards values are in front of strength and if they think I can make 8 tricks opposite this they are bidding a couple more.

[nigel_k]

Fluffy's reasons are good ones, but I might still do it. I like the 6-4 shape and diamond spots. The frequency of gain is high and partner doesn't always have shortage in your suit, though it definitely could be messy if he does.

[gwnn]

2♠ for me, taking a calculated risk. I hate ace-empty suits but I love 6-4.

[ggwhiz]

I know this is weird but I've experimented with a 1♠ overcall on a hand like this with some success, especially if it was 1♥ with the majors reversed.

 

Find a fit (and sound tough as appropriate), find diamonds and have a pard that doesn't get too excited in case you have the 7 or 8 count. When it works I still haven't got a handle on whether it's legit mis-direction or clubbing the baby seals but it's been doing fine score wise.

[P_Marlowe]

I would have made the call, but my partner knowes this.

 

To answer your question - The hand is certainly not a mainstream

2S weak jump overcall, but you have 6-4, you liked to have a 10,

but who really cardes, until they go for blood.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

I know this is weird but I've experimented with a 1♠ overcall on a hand like this with some success, especially if it was 1♥ with the majors reversed.

 

Find a fit (and sound tough as appropriate), find diamonds and have a pard that doesn't get too excited in case you have the 7 or 8 count. When it works I still haven't got a handle on whether it's legit mis-direction or clubbing the baby seals but it's been doing fine score wise.

The problem with this approach is, that you kill your constructive bidding after a 1S overcall.

You will have lots of problems, if the range of overcalls go from 4 to 17/18 HCP.

You will also kill your chances of finding penalty double, if they get to high, similar reason.

 

Again it is different, if partner is a passed hand, see the thread about light T/O, because you randomize,

bluring the information that gets revealed, call it mixed strategy.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Zelandakh]

I make this 2♠ bid routinely against most opps. I think it is a long term winner providing your partner knows to expect the wide-ranging style. Also, the meaning of the 1♣ opening is relevant - against Acol the upside is considerable less then when they are playing a short club. Overcalling 1♠ on these hands is possible if you have things built around that style. It is not a good idea for non-experts though imho.

[dwar0123]

Thanks, I thought it was a pretty routine 2♠ but it was a big loser this time around.

 

So if you hold

♠-

♥at9xxx

♦ajxx

♣xxx

 

and the bidding went

1♣-2♠-P - P

X - P - P - ?

 

Do you pass, bid 2nt or 3♥?

[ggwhiz]

Nothing works all the time but I would pass in a flash here.

 

I'm hoping pard can score 2 ruffs (any red suit) plus my 2 Aces plus at least a couple of late spades as opposed to something at the 3 level that wins the same number of tricks. Besides, if we are in it I prefer to be dummy.

 

I have some sympathy for the 2♠ bid at mp's but like to play a consistent style at everything and this one is really leading with your chin if it were imps.

[CSGibson]

It depends on who I am playing with, and what our preempting agreements are. If this is within the realm of what we have discussed preempting, I'll probably preempt it, though its not my preferred style.

 

Playing opposite myself, I would probably not overcall 2♠ opposite an unpassed partner at equal vulnerability with this hand, but I would consider it, and don't think that 2♠ is unreasonable or bad. At favorable I would put 2♠ on the table in a flash; opposite a passed hand partner I would probably try 1♠ at any other vulnerability.

[rmnka447]

I think 2 ♠ is a tad optimistic, but all's fair in love and matchpoints. Just be prepared to receive a lot of grief from partner if it doesn't work out. You also might not want to do it if partner would get disoriented with a terrible result from the hand.

 

Consider that if you want to make such extraordinary weak jump shifts regularly, partner may not be able to discern what to do when you make a WJS or may get gun shy about taking action -- because it isn't known if you are operating or making a more normal WJS.

 

Generally, you want to have some decent honor cards and intermediate cards in the suit if you make a WJS -- something like AJ10xxx, KQ10xxx, or KJ98xx. At favorable vulnerability (Not Vul vs. Vul), you might push suit quality a little -- K109xxx, A109xxx, etc. And at unfavorable vulnerability (Vul. vs. Not Vul.), you probably won't do it without a really good 6 card (KQJ10xx) or decent 7 card suit (KQ10xxxx).

 

As for the situation where partner is in 2 ♠ doubled which comes around to you in the passout seat and you hold ♠ - ♥ A109xxx ♦ AJxx ♣ xxx. Your only acceptable action is to PASS.

 

First of all, you have no idea what exactly partner has except that you have a misfit. A good principle to follow is that when the hand is a misfit is to get out of the auction as fast and as low as you can. If you make a bid at this point, you're going to raise the level of the contract without any idea if it will improve the contract -- partner might be void in your suit.

 

Second, your 2 As are likely to provide 2 tricks for partner. You have no idea if partner's ♠s will provide any tricks for you in another contract -- or even if you can get to them if they can.

 

Finally, you don't want to be in the position of trying to save partner when partner didn't need to be saved. I can't count the number of times over the years that I've seen one opponent feel that the other opponent had done something stupid, tried to save the situation, and saved defeat from the jaws of victory -- doing nothing would have produced a really good result, saving partner produced a zero!!!!

[the hog]

I would not bid 2S on this - the suit is too weak. However I would bid 1S over a 1c opening at this vulnerability. My partners would not be surprised at me holding this hand.

[MrAce]

Auto 2♠ and i don't think it is close.

 

You can find and write pages of reasons or excuses to talk yourself into not bidding 2♠, none of them will make as much sense as putting 2♠ to the nose of your LHO.

 

-2♠ has a huge preempt effect. You are shutting down the 2 level except 2NT, and most people cant even bid 2nt natural because they play it something else.

-You are telling your pd number of cards u have in spades, your strength, and you that you will pass the rest of the board unless you are forced.So it is not only about preempting your opponents but letting pd have a clear view of your hand.

-You have 6-4 (Six-four-bids-more)

-You are not red.

 

 

Waiting and bidding later ? Good luck with that. Each time i tried to make such a genius plan, i saw it came back to me either 4♥ by opponents, or ♥ preempt by pd when we have 8-9 card spades or when we could play a 6-1 fit at 2 level instead of a 7-1 fit at 3 level doubled or 3 NT by opponents which means we will recieve ♥ lead on most days from pd.

 

I don't even think this is a bad hand for preempt, after all a preempt is a preempt is a preempt is a preempt. Not a constructive bidding. It is a nightmare for every player in the world to deal with. You can use it only when gifted by a lot of spot textures to feel yourself more safe, but that means you will let your opponents have their constructive auctions much more often.

[akwoo]

Interesting to see responses fairly close to split here.

 

I think this is one of those where you want to be with the field if your cardplay is better than the field, and against the field if your cardplay is about even or (gasp!) a bit worse. If the field is roughly split, you want to bid against weaker opponents (they are more likely to make a dumb bid or fail to double, and weaker players give away more tricks on defense than when declaring) and pass against stronger.

 

Where the field is depends on where you are.

[Cyberyeti]

Thanks, I thought it was a pretty routine 2♠ but it was a big loser this time around.

 

So if you hold

♠-

♥at9xxx

♦ajxx

♣xxx

 

and the bidding went

1♣-2♠-P - P

X - P - P - ?

 

Do you pass, bid 2nt or 3♥?

Redouble for rescue, but then my 2♠ could be considerably less points and spades than the hand presented as the original problem.

[gwnn]

At the table you will often know whether your RHO passed with KQJx of KJx. I would often pull to 3H here.

[Fluffy]

Running from the 6-0 to a higher level is not my style, obviously some hands are worth it but not ace empty suits.

[the hog]

I think a lot of posters do not understand the difference between making a wjo and between opening 2S. The hand is a 2S opening nv, but is not a wjo.

[aguahombre]

I think a lot of posters do not understand the difference between making a wjo and between opening 2S. The hand is a 2S opening nv, but is not a wjo.

We agree that it is not a wjo.

[mike777]

I think a lot of posters do not understand the difference between making a wjo and between opening 2S. The hand is a 2S opening nv, but is not a wjo.

 

 

so the difference is what?

 

 

Just asken...since you raise the issue.

[nigel_k]

so the difference is what?

 

 

Just asken...since you raise the issue.

When they have exchanged more information (by opening the bidding) the chance of them ending in the wrong spot due to the preempt is less, and the chance of them choosing to defend when that is right is higher. I would definitely open 2♠ on this non-vul without a second thought. As a WJO I think it's close. For people whose style is more conservative it might be a questionable 2♠ opening and definitely not a WJO.

[Cyberyeti]

When they have exchanged more information (by opening the bidding) the chance of them ending in the wrong spot due to the preempt is less, and the chance of them choosing to defend when that is right is higher. I would definitely open 2♠ on this non-vul without a second thought. As a WJO I think it's close. For people whose style is more conservative it might be a questionable 2♠ opening and definitely not a WJO.

May depend on the nature of the club, over a 2 card club, they've not exchanged much info and it's time to go for your gun.