Torrance - I

[Phil]

All vul

 

AQxx xx xx KJ6xx

 

1♥ - p - 2♥ - ?

[gszes]

no matter imps or mp at these colors there is little room for error

and our hand has far too little offense and bad shape to bid. We

probably have a fit but there is no guarantee and the still unlimited

opening bidder is behind us. We could be turning a simple -110

into a -200 to -1100 just by doing anything other then

 

PASS

 

Of course there will always be gamblers among us that win with x from

time to time and forget all the bad things. Anybody see a casino around?

[kfay]

I'd pass but it's very close.

[rduran1216]

the heart bidders were NV

[wank]

not at all tempted to bid

[JLOGIC]

id double

[bigbenvic]

Pass and for me it's not close.

 

wrong shape, not enough points, bad vunerability and I'm being sat over by the hand that likely has the most points in the deck.

 

This auction isn't over and they could easily have game on and all I'm doing is highlighting where most of the missing points are and giving them a chance to bid game or double for blood!

 

Too many risks not enough rewards.

[CarlRitner]

id double

 

switch the minors and play elc, then double is a winner.

 

else pass.

[mike777]

looks like an obar bid:

 

BIDS - Acronym for Opponents Bid And Raise - Balance In Direct Seat. Popularized by Larry Cohen in "To Bid Or Not To Bid: The Law of Total Tricks". Conceptually, when one side discovers a trump fit at the 2 level trump (beneath 2 Spades), the other side should consider entering the auction - even bidding without substantive values in direct seat. While many might make a bid in the balancing/passout seat ("borrowing partner's King"), making a freebid in direct seat is typically viewed as showing additional values - no so playing OBAR BIDS.

 

Criteria to consider when making an OBAR BIDS:

 

1.

Sensitive to Vulnerability - caution when unfavorable "Red versus White"

 

2.

Shortage in OBAR suit

 

3.

Reasonable length in higher ranking suit

 

4.

Working values - honors in higher ranking and side suits

 

5.

Quality of hand - controls, primary honors, intermediate values, sequences, etc

[the hog]

Pass. The shape is poor.

[Fluffy]

would bid if I was a passed hand, pass now.

[rogerclee]

I feel like x and 2S are both better bids than pass.

[lalldonn]

I can see 2♠ but I don't really like double. I greatly fear the 3♦ bid, which my hand looks completely awful for. But maybe I'm just a wimp since anything else that happens would probably be good for me.

 

Bleh to be honest I'm just torn and I think I would have passed but I don't hate anything.

[nigel_k]

2♠ certainly looks ugly but will often work. If partner has four spades and you get too high, double is unlikely to fare any better. If partner has only three spades and enough to raise, he very likely was going to bid diamonds over our double - possibly not just 3D either. If partner has less than three spades, at least we have somewhere to go.

[mike777]

Phil, great problem so what is the deal? :)

[rmnka447]

Pass, it's really tough to come in at this position unless you've very solid holdings or lots of distribution.

 

The problems with intervening now are --

 

1. Your tenaces are in front of the player with most of the opponent's points.

 

2. Pard rates to hold at least a doubleton in their suit, so no reason to believe you can cut down on losers in their suit.

 

3. You can't be sure that pard has anything at all. If pard gets to bid and chocks out a call in pass out seat, you'll be glad to compete.

[JLOGIC]

As far as 2S, I used to always bid that and in my experience partner just always bids with 4 spades and he will often compete to 3S if they do bid 3H and he has 3 spades and some values, after all who wouldn't? This is a significant downside compared to doubling, and does not even take into account how bad it is when partner has 2 spades and we have to play 2S in the 4-2.

 

It is almost impossible that partner will bid 3D with 4 diamonds when we have 2 diamonds, he has to be 3343 and not bid 2S or 2N. I guess it's a chicken and egg thing, if you X with 4225 types routinely (maybe this is too light to people in this thread, but add a king), partner will not bid 3D with 3343 but if you don't then he will. Even then, it is not clear to me that it's right to bid 3D with that shape.

 

Playing 3D in a 5-2 is not as bad as playing 2S in a 4-2, and partner will not overcompete when we double as he will when we bid 2S, and on top of that we keep the chance of playing clubs in the picture which is not an insignificant chance.

 

Jdonn I think you should start doubling and see what happens, it looks scary but partner won't bid 3D as often as you think and when he does he will sometimes have 6 diamonds, and when he has 5 diamonds they will sometimes bid 3H anyways, and even when we play 3D in a 5-2 fit it is not so bad when we're not doubled, down 1, down 2, whatever.

 

It is just very likely that partner has 4 spades, or 4+ clubs (even with diamonds he will bid 2N), or 6 diamonds, and I am sure that X works much better than 2S when partner has 4 spades.

[lalldonn]

I'll give it a whirl. You have sort of talked me out of 2♠ but I'm still very scared of a 5-2 diamond fit if I double, when my hand and diamonds are this bad.

[CSGibson]

Pass. I would probably only act at favorable, and even then I would feel like I was stretching when I doubled.

[MrAce]

Pass, we still have a pd don't we, if 2♥ goes to him ?

[mike777]

Pass, we still have a pd don't we, if 2♥ goes to him ?

 

'GREAT QUESTION ...IF WE PASS DO WE?

 

i MEAN WILL pard play us for what? less...much less?

 

Let me put it his way ...if we deny this hand then pard will bid what?

 

 

---

 

I rephrase if we pass we deny this hand....so pard will bid what?

[MrAce]

'GREAT QUESTION ...IF WE PASS DO WE?

 

i MEAN WILL pard play us for what? less...much less?

 

Let me put it his way ...if we deny this hand then pard will bid what?

 

 

---

 

I rephrase if we pass we deny this hand....so pard will bid what?

 

I don't think i understood what you are upto, but partners don't play us for anything when they balance, they play opponents for not having a game strength, not even close to game due to lack of invitation, and i think you are wrong about we deny this hand when we pass.

 

Jeesus! Why would i deny this hand ? After all i have a 5422 10 count, no 5 card to bid at 2 level, and last time i checked you need to be not so annoyed to play in any of the unbid suits if pd bids when you make a light take out dbl. And you are not even in pass out seat !