Phil Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 ♠Kx ♥xx ♦K9xxx ♣Axxx 1♠ - 1N3♣ - 4♣4♦ - Your call, and do you agree with 4♣ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevahound Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 This is not what you asked, but I really like playing waiting bids over jump shifts. This gives definition to all responder's non-waiting bids, and in most cases provides opener maximum room to complete (or at least further) their description. What now? 4♠. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenagy Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 ♠Kx ♥xx ♦K9xxx ♣Axxx 1♠ - 1N3♣ - 4♣4♦ - Assuming 4♦ is a cue showing first or second round controls, 4♠ sounds like the information my partner needs. Your call, and do you agree with 4!c This is okay by me if 3♣ was natural showing 4+♣, 5+♠ and 18+HCPs. I don't have any fancy gadgets, here. NT might be a better scoring strain, but I'll be crossing my fingers about a heart stop. Let partner decide once you've shown your club support and spade control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 I would have bid 3♠ last time, planning to continue with 4♣ over partner's 3NT. I will bid 4♠ now. Diamonds could easily be a better trump suit if partner is 5134 or even 5044 with bad clubs, but he could also have AQJxx xx AQ KQJx and anything beyond 5♣ is too much. There is still a chance for either us or partner to bid 5NT choice of slam later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 This is not what you asked, but I really like playing waiting bids over jump shifts. This gives definition to all responder's non-waiting bids, and in most cases provides opener maximum room to complete (or at least further) their description. What now? 4♠. Sometimes when partner makes a jump shift after 1N, there's really nothing more important for him to say besides "I have spades and clubs and a good hand". We, on the other hand, have some extras and a few big cards. Don't we owe partner more than a 'waiting bid' in these auctions? Also, aren't you (and others) concerned 4♠ might be passed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 5D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 5D. Not concerned we are off a heart control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Not concerned we are off a heart control?That is why I bid 5D and not 4H or something. else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Not keen on that 3♣ bid unless it describes a specific hand such as a 15/16 5xx5. Assuming it is a strong hand with a club suit, I would say 4♣ is good. Stronger than 5♣. If 4♦ was not ace asking, but a cue bid, then 4♠ is now good. It cannot be passed, as we have agreed clubs. Having made that move, I will pass 5♣ but otherwise cooperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Not keen on that 3♣ bid unless it describes a specific hand such as a 15/16 5xx5.What other forcing bids can opener make other than a jump shift? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think 4♣ is a hand that wants to play in clubs and 4♠ would therefore be unambiguously forcing. I prefer both rebids of 3♦ (grope) and 3♠ here, usually to be followed by 4♣ next time around. After all, Opener might only have 2 clubs! For me, the difference between a direct 4♣ and a grope followed by 4♣ is not so much strength as the level of club support. Change a diamond to a club and I would be happy starting with a 4♣ rebid and following this with a 4♠ cue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 What other forcing bids can opener make other than a jump shift?Comparing degrees of artificiality, I think 3♣ that shows a strong hand but can be a doubleton (Zel) is no simpler than 2♣ that shows an undefined strong hand. So my preference is for 2♣ as it gives double the room to explore fits and game suitability. That being the case, jumps should show specific shapes/strengths that can then be removed from the alternatives covered by the general purpose 2♣, so its subsequent descriptions are more precise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich-b Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Also, aren't you (and others) concerned 4♠ might be passed? We have the agreement , that after a control cuebid has been made (4♦ in this case) , all "in doubt" bids (suits other than the agreed trumps , even if bid by either partner before) are cuebids. It would be different if opener rebid 4♠ after 4♣. Since no control cuebids have been made yet , we would play 4♠ here as natural and suggestion to play. Pairs can have other agreements of course , but I feel it is important to have a general agreement , and not judge each case (of this type) by its own merits , which too often leads to misunderstandings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I would bid 3♠ over 3♣ (3♦ also seems reasonable). I don't think 4♠ is passable now, how can we have a hand that wants to play 4♠ when partner didn't bid it and we didn't bid 3♠ last time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yes, I also bid 4S. If partner passes it, I'm actually quite happy, since this suggests partner doesn't have a heart control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I would bid 3♠ over 3♣ (3♦ also seems reasonable). I don't think 4♠ is passable now, how can we have a hand that wants to play 4♠ when partner didn't bid it and we didn't bid 3♠ last time? Depends if you would bid 3♣ on ♠AQJxx ♥xx ♦KQ ♣AQJx. Partner can have: ♠Kx ♥Qxx ♦xxx ♣Kxxxx 4NT is available as a spade cue, and it's what I bid on the hand in the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 4 ♠ is avaiable as a spade cue bid, so I will choose it- obvbiously neither 4 ♣ nor 4 ♦ had been a kind of minorwood. I had choosen 4 ♣ too, SI with clubs. But I live in a (small) world, where 3 ♣ really promises 4+ clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogs Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Don't like 4♣. Like 3♦ as a advanced cue. Usually shows four-card support of the second suit. Occasionally it is support(3-card limit raise) of the first suit. 3♦ shows ace or king and an ace in one of partner's suits. If 3♣ is real clubs, opener should bid slam in clubs. Advancer can always correct the lower suit to the higher suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 4NT is available as a spade cue, and it's what I bid on the hand in the OP. With my regular partner, 4♦ is RKC, but if partner bid 4♥ instead, 4N would definitely be forward going in clubs, implying a spade control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 With my regular partner, 4♦ is RKC, but if partner bid 4♥ instead, 4N would definitely be forward going in clubs, implying a spade control. Yep, 4♦ same for me. But over a red cue, everyone apart from us can bid 4♠ with a control. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 My view on this which is definitely not standard is that 4♣ should be a weak hand (old suit = weakness). We don't have that so we should bid some 3rd suit forcing after 3♣ and 4♣ later.It will be very difficult now because we are in 4-11 range so partner would like to make many "just in case" cues. We need to find something about our range and the place for that is after 3♣ bid. Something like: 1♠ - 1NT3♣ - ? 3♦ = artificial, good hand (~8-11) 3♥ = long hearts 3♠ = minimum preference 3NT = something in red suits 4♣ weakish hand with ♣ support 4♦ = very good hand for clubs, cuebid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I agree with the bidding to date and i bid 4S now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 ♠Kx ♥xx ♦K9xxx ♣Axxx 1♠ - 1N3♣ - 4♣4♦ - Your call, and do you agree with 4♣ 4s the good news is either 4d is kickback for clubs or not... in any case easy 4s today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 4s the good news is either 4d is kickback for clubs or not... in any case easy 4s today. Hell, for that matter 4♦ could be an asking bid and we can show 2nd round control! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 :P To me the bidding up to now is almost a no-brainer. Imho, 3♣ will nearly always show a decent suit. 4♣ is mildly slammish w/o a ♥ stopper. 4♦ says pard is still interested in slam. 4♠ shows either the ace or king since I have shown a relatively weak hand with 1NT. It can't be to play since I didn't bid 3♠ over 3♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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