Followups after a game-try double

[broze]

Using double as a game trial bid is relatively common and can be used in many auctions but here is an example.

 

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1h1sd2s3hd(Game%20try%20in%20%21S)p3sp]133|100[/hv]

 

 

 

East has a hand that wants to try for game opposite a simple 2♠ raise. The only trial bid available to him is a double. Partner has a minimum and so bids 3♠ to sign off.

 

My question is what kind of hands will now bid 4♠ as East? Also assuming 4♣ and 4♦ immediately after North's 3♥ would be cue bids agreeing hearts(?) what is the meaning of the same bids following a game try double after which partner signs off.

 

I feel that this is an area with very little discussion or consensus.

[aguahombre]

Using double as a game trial bid is relatively common and can be used in many auctions but here is an example.

 

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1h1sd2s3hd(Game%20try%20in%20%21S)p3sp]133|100[/hv]

 

 

 

East has a hand that wants to try for game opposite a simple 2♠ raise. The only trial bid available to him is a double. Partner has a minimum and so bids 3♠ to sign off.

 

My question is what kind of hands will now bid 4♠ as East? Also assuming 4♣ and 4♦ immediately after North's 3♥ would be cue bids agreeing hearts(?) what is the meaning of the same bids following a game try double after which partner signs off.

Asking partner's opinion about game, and then accepting my own game try, has not proved to be winning Bridge for me. So, I have given up doing that. Any hand which would have gone on to game regardless would have either bid 4S last time, or have bid a long second suit last time so that partner can judge what to do if the opponents bid some more.

 

In responding, I have accepted the premise of the OP that double is indeed a game try here. It could be argued that when both opponents have shown values equivalent to around half the deck there would be very few overcalls which would want to make a somewhat random game try. Opener has rebid his suit in front of us without known support, and it might be more likely we have a surprise behind him in hearts and would like to warn our CHO against bidding 3S.

[kayin801]

X then 4♠ looks like a penalty X of hearts with game-going values. Which is kinda impossible. Maybe its Hxx in hearts and other defensive values, just in case partner can make a penalty pass.

[Finch]

I think 4m would be natural two-suiters, not a cue bid agreeing hearts.

So in theory I think this auction shows a strong balanced hand that had some interest in slam if partner accepted the game try.

In practice I'm not sure that is really possible on this auction, but we can probably come up with a different auction where it is:

 

1C 1H 1S 2H

2S 3H dbl P

3S P 4S

 

responder could have a slam try here

[PhilKing]

Also assuming 4♣ and 4♦ immediately after North's 3♥ would be cue bids agreeing hearts(?) what is the meaning of the same bids following a game try double after which partner signs off.

 

I feel that this is an area with very little discussion or consensus.

 

The chances of such an auction being of any use must be close to zero, because:

 

1. It's incredibly likely we have a slam on here in the first place.

 

2. If we do, it's because we have a perfect secondary fit.

 

3. If we double, we lose our chance to find the secondary fit, when partner, of all things, accepts our try by jumping to game.

 

4. When partner turns down our game try, he will never have what we need, so any further moves are futile.

 

I have never seen an auction like this at the table, and I probably never will.

[Finch]

We were doing some bidding practice this evening and my partner and I had the following discussion (I was thinking of this thread):

 

Me: Would you ever make a game try double with a slam try?

Him: No

Me: OK

 

So there's someone else who thinks the auction doesn't exit.

[gnasher]

I've seen this type of auction in a book (possibly Flint and Sharp). The suggestion was that one should bid like this on a fairly balanced hand that was worth game, on the off-chance that partner would leave it in.

[nigel_k]

Maybe a hand that wants to be in 4♠ rather than 3♠ even if partner is minimum, but would prefer to double 4♥ if possible so is leaving opponents room to do that.