Fluffy Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 [hv=d=n&v=n&s=sq10862hq9dj10987c3]133|100|Scoring: IMPN - E - S - W1♥-1♠-??[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 I think a popular vote might be a lead directing 2♥, but it is wrong. First, you don't want partner leading from AJ-fifth. Second, you don't want parnter applying the law and overbidding. The sane thing to do is pass. With five spades, the bidding is not over. Partner will surely be short and reopen with a double or a minor suit bid. Then you can rebid 2♥ if given a chance wthout getting the killing lead for your side's chances (like heart from AJ) or getting your partner to excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Hehe, the only reason you ask must be u passed and got a bad result. No matter what happened you still should pass next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 I would pass. I am too weak for 1NT or 2D, and I don't like 2♥ as it may encourage partner to compete too high when I want to defend. The bidding isn't over yet. I may still get to tell partner about my meagre posessions. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 I vote for pass as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass jimmy, that is not quite enough, better to bid 2D or 2H if pd reopen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass Yes, fly is correct jimmy. You MUST not leave a reopening double in with this hand. Bid 2♥ or if you want, 2♦... but don't pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass Yes, fly is correct jimmy. You MUST not leave a reopening double in with this hand. Bid 2♥ or if you want, 2♦... but don't pass. I would bid 2♥, don't like my ♦. Leave the reopen-dbl in? Too weak (♠ and overall hand) to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Pull the reopening to 2♦. Double a 2♠ follow-up; which is an EXCELLENT description of this hand. Compete to 3♦ over 3♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Fourrière Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Pass, followed by 3♦ over a reopening double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 since so many disagreed, i'll bow to their collective wisdom... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Pull the reopening to 2♦. Double a 2♠ follow-up; which is an EXCELLENT description of this hand. Compete to 3♦ over 3♣. You got to show your support for partner's opening suit with Qx. I would pull pd's reopen-dbl to 2H and compete 3♦ over 3♣. Or, if you pull pd's reopen-dbl to 2D, then u need to compete to 3H over 3C, in which case, pd had to correct to 4D if (s)he has 4-card ♦ and 5-card ♥ only. In this regard, 2♥ over pd's reopen-dbl is then 2D, for later competition. Also, to pull pd's dbl to 2D and rebid 3D is too much with such a weak 5-card suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cf_John0 Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Pass first. Later if necessary,support PD's ♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass Yes, fly is correct jimmy. You MUST not leave a reopening double in with this hand. Bid 2♥ or if you want, 2♦... but don't pass. Why do you prefer 2♥ to 2♦ after partner's re-opening double? I would have thought that being able to ruff the ♠ in the short trump hand on a probable 9 card fit is worth a trick or two more than whatever partner can make in his 5-2 fit. If partner subsequently hints at more than a part score I can mention my ♥ then, but it seems wrong to hide my 5 card suit from partner. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Pass first and I think I would bid 1NT (am I the only one ? ) on the reopening dlb because 2♥ = 3 cards (most of the time), ♦ Diamonds are weak and I have a solid ♠ stop + max HCP for pass. Ok I have single ♣, but I can live with it ! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass Yes, fly is correct jimmy. You MUST not leave a reopening double in with this hand. Bid 2♥ or if you want, 2♦... but don't pass. Why do you prefer 2♥ to 2♦ after partner's re-opening double? I would have thought that being able to ruff the ♠ in the short trump hand on a probable 9 card fit is worth a trick or two more than whatever partner can make in his 5-2 fit. If partner subsequently hints at more than a part score I can mention my ♥ then, but it seems wrong to hide my 5 card suit from partner. Eric I didn't mean so much to prefer hearts as to warn partner not to bid again. My long spades, in theory will stop the spade force. And the fact that I didn't raise hearts at first, will keep partner from participating further in the auction. If they will leave me alone, I would prefer 2♦, but I suspect 2♦ will not be the end of the bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 since i'm gonna leave a reopening double in, on this hand i'd pass Yes, fly is correct jimmy. You MUST not leave a reopening double in with this hand. Bid 2♥ or if you want, 2♦... but don't pass. Why do you prefer 2♥ to 2♦ after partner's re-opening double? I would have thought that being able to ruff the ♠ in the short trump hand on a probable 9 card fit is worth a trick or two more than whatever partner can make in his 5-2 fit. If partner subsequently hints at more than a part score I can mention my ♥ then, but it seems wrong to hide my 5 card suit from partner. Eric I didn't mean so much to prefer hearts as to warn partner not to bid again. My long spades, in theory will stop the spade force. And the fact that I didn't raise hearts at first, will keep partner from participating further in the auction. If they will leave me alone, I would prefer 2♦, but I suspect 2♦ will not be the end of the bidding. In the specific auction 1♥ (1♠) P (P) X (P) 2♦, it strikes me as very unlikely that the opps are suddenly going to come to life! Once both opponents have passed consecutively, it is much more likely that partner has a very strong hand, so we might as well describe our hand as best we can. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 The reason I bid 2♦ instead of 2♥ over the dbl isn't because I'm worried about the spade force; its because I'm worried about partner losing ♣ and ♥ tricks. With my hand, diamonds looks to be a much better spot, even at MP's. A typical reopening for pard is: x, KJxxx, Axx, Axxx. (BY the way, where's JT been?). This plays pretty awkward in hearts, but diamonds looks like a good place to land. 1♠ looks frigid, but I don't mind defending 2 doubled looking for +200. I can see that they have a very playable spot in ♣'s, but this looks difficult to reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 In the specific auction 1♥ (1♠) P (P) X (P) 2♦, it strikes me as very unlikely that the opps are suddenly going to come to life! Once both opponents have passed consecutively, it is much more likely that partner has a very strong hand, so we might as well describe our hand as best we can. Eric I put this hypothesis to the test by using REC software Inc's Bridgebrowser onto the problem. I asked it to check for auctions that begin specifically 1♥ (1♠) P (P) X (P) 2♦, And examined how many were followed by three passes. In my initial test using recent BBO data, I found this auction occured 96 times, but 2♦ ended the auction only 16 times (just more than 16%). The overcaller (the spade bidder) side played the hand a total of 25 times (meaning they outbid your side of course). Sometimes the extra bidding was by opener without any interference, but on 62 of the 97 hands the overcaller side took another action in the auction after the 2♦ call, and on a few where they didn't it was openers rebid that scared them off in my opinion. So I think the auction is not over after a 2♦ call from either your partner's side of the table or the opponents. IT might be, be the odds of that are fairly low. If partner has diamonds, they will find a reason to bid, if partner is strong, he might bid again, if he is not, they will bid again. This seems to be a trueism... If you bid 2♦ and overcaller has fair clubs and nice spades, he will reopen with a double over 2♦ and find their fit.. and if you don't belong in diamonds, he might reopen and the next hand might have enough diamonds (behind you) to find the pass. ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 In the specific auction 1♥ (1♠) P (P) X (P) 2♦, it strikes me as very unlikely that the opps are suddenly going to come to life! Once both opponents have passed consecutively, it is much more likely that partner has a very strong hand, so we might as well describe our hand as best we can. Eric I put this hypothesis to the test by using REC software Inc's Bridgebrowser onto the problem. I asked it to check for auctions that begin specifically 1♥ (1♠) P (P) X (P) 2♦, And examined how many were followed by three passes. In my initial test using recent BBO data, I found this auction occured 96 times, but 2♦ ended the auction only 16 times (just more than 16%). The overcaller (the spade bidder) side played the hand a total of 25 times (meaning they outbid your side of course). Sometimes the extra bidding was by opener without any interference, but on 62 of the 97 hands the overcaller side took another action in the auction after the 2♦ call, and on a few where they didn't it was openers rebid that scared them off in my opinion. So I think the auction is not over after a 2♦ call from either your partner's side of the table or the opponents. IT might be, be the odds of that are fairly low. If partner has diamonds, they will find a reason to bid, if partner is strong, he might bid again, if he is not, they will bid again. This seems to be a trueism... If you bid 2♦ and overcaller has fair clubs and nice spades, he will reopen with a double over 2♦ and find their fit.. and if you don't belong in diamonds, he might reopen and the next hand might have enough diamonds (behind you) to find the pass. ben I am genuinely surprised by this! Partly by how often this particular auction occured. I don't suppose you could say why the opponent's didn't have a bid on the last round but suddenly find that they do now. If it is becasue overcaller has a medium strength hand with 6♠, then we can probably discount that from our thinking on this particular hand. As I wouldn't be too worried about their bidding on in ♠. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 I am genuinely surprised by this! Partly by how often this particular auction occured. I don't suppose you could say why the opponent's didn't have a bid on the last round but suddenly find that they do now. If it is becasue overcaller has a medium strength hand with 6♠, then we can probably discount that from our thinking on this particular hand. As I wouldn't be too worried about their bidding on in ♠. Eric Well, I looked at over 4 million auctions, so this isn't a very high frequency....that is, it isn't often. Often the spade bidder found another bid, or the 1♠ passer now found he had a few points and three spades and raised. There was a fair number of 2♦X (some left in btw) when overcaller had clubs. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 I am genuinely surprised by this! Partly by how often this particular auction occured. I don't suppose you could say why the opponent's didn't have a bid on the last round but suddenly find that they do now. If it is becasue overcaller has a medium strength hand with 6♠, then we can probably discount that from our thinking on this particular hand. As I wouldn't be too worried about their bidding on in ♠. Eric Well, I looked at over 4 million auctions, so this isn't a very high frequency....that is, it isn't often. Often the spade bidder found another bid, or the 1♠ passer now found he had a few points and three spades and raised. There was a fair number of 2♦X (some left in btw) when overcaller had clubs. Ben I suppose the situation where 4th hand fails to raise on the first round is the one to worry about, especially against weak opposition. But less so in this situation, where we have 5 spades. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 In my regular partnership I have a 2D gadget available for VERY weak raise (which could be 2 cards!), so I might just use that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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