Any way to prevent this from happening?

[AyunuS]

I once was playing a hand where I had a really good hand. I don't remember exactly other than that I had 7 diamonds, 5 hearts, and a singleton A of some other suit, and I think I had 3 total A and some other good stuff, but I don't know the details. I had for so long been hoping to maybe someday get dealt something like the ultimate hand, and though I don't remember it exactly, I think this hand wasn't too far away from being one. In any case, my partner opened 1♣ and I thought it was best to show a 5-card major first if I had one, so I responded 1♥ and then he bid 1NT. I didn't think he'd use NMF so I just bid 2♦ as I figured he'd at least take it as forcing, and then he jumped to 3NT. I don't like it when players bid this kind of thing since it makes me wonder if their hand really might be stronger than the 12-14 I normally consider the 1NT response, so I didn't very well know what he had. In any case, I still knew we should have a diamond fit since he bid NT before I ever showed diamonds, and so I figured he'd have at least 2 of them, and iirc I made some ridiculous-looking diamond bid, and then he booted me from the table and wouldn't even let me play the hand. I was so disappointed since I'd been searching for so long and had so rarely ever gotten hands even this good that I really wanted to play it. I looked it up in the results afterwards and remember whoever showed up did make the contract that I had bid. In any case, does someone have some words of wisdom as to how I can not get booted from the table apparently just for an apparently bad bid?

[the hog]

1C 1H

1N 2D

Not playing nmf, this sequence is non forcing.

 

I would have bid 1D and followed it up with 2 and 3 hearts.

As for not getting booted - pick a better partner.

[Antrax]

Huh? Why would it be non-forcing? Responder is still unlimited.

That being said, with a strong hand, you can afford to show suits in their natural order, i.e. longest first.

[Codo]

1. If you do not want to get booted: Play with friends. If you do not have enough friends on BBO, make anyone your friend which fits your expectations about the game and the behaviour at the table.

 

2. You bid the hand really really bad. If you have a strong two suiter, bid the longer suit first. Try to learn basic bidding rules - bbo can help you.

[gwnn]

I hate these kinds of hands. They introduce swings for no reason. Grr.of course 4333 is also not always fun...

[aguahombre]

Huh? Why would it be non-forcing?

Well, I would guess they named the NMF convention "New Minor Forcing" because otherwise after a 1NT rebid a new minor wasn't forcing.

[gwnn]

Huh? Why would it be non-forcing? Responder is still unlimited.

That being said, with a strong hand, you can afford to show suits in their natural order, i.e. longest first.

By the same token as

 

1m-1S

1N-2H is usually played as non-forcing (despite the fact that responder is unlimited).

 

Of course, trying to find a 4-card diamond suit in opener's hand is something of a pipe dream and playing 1NT should be OK usually anyway (people hate minor suit fits). Hence New Minor Forcing, 2-way checkback, etc.

[Bbradley62]

In any case, does someone have some words of wisdom as to how I can not get booted from the table apparently just for an apparently bad bid?

Sounds like your partner expected better bidding from an Advanced player. Maybe if you lower your self-rating, partners won't set such high expectations and therefore won't be as upset when you bid like this.

[Zelandakh]

He has a monthly average of +0.35 IMPs/bd which is definitely Advanced according to bboskill - what more evidence do you need? :blink:

 

Even opposite an "Expert" it is unusual to boot someone for bad bidding before you have even seen their hand to be able to judge. I did enjoy the part where the OP claims not to like "this sort of bid" (presumably this sort being an "unnecessary" jump) and then proceeds to make one of his own though!

[billw55]

Sounds like your partner expected better bidding from an Advanced player. Maybe if you lower your self-rating, partners won't set such high expectations and therefore won't be as upset when you bid like this.

At first it sounded to me like this player booted him before he even saw his hand. Rereading the OP, it isn't really clear. And the immediate boot is very rude either way (rude to the whole table in fact), the hand should be finished. I would say mark this guy as enemy and move on.

 

Furthermore, after 1♣ - 1♥ - 1NT - 2♦, 3NT is an almost impossible bid, sounds like basic handhogging to me.

[Fluffy]

 

Any way to prevent this from happening?

 

It seems obvious to open the table yourself to avoid it.

[Codo]

 

Furthermore, after 1♣ - 1♥ - 1NT - 2♦, 3NT is an almost impossible bid, sounds like basic handhogging to me.

 

Not if you guess that partner play NMF- which I would assume from every advanced CHO I meet at BBO.

[Antrax]

Well, I would guess they named the NMF convention "New Minor Forcing" because otherwise after a 1NT rebid a new minor wasn't forcing.

I thought the difference is that with NMF the suit bid isn't natural.

It never ceases to amaze me how basic some of the holes in my bidding knowledge are. I was sure a new suit by an unpassed responder is forcing, even when opener is limited.

[aguahombre]

Furthermore, after 1♣ - 1♥ - 1NT - 2♦, 3NT is an almost impossible bid, sounds like basic handhogging to me.

Almost impossible, but not quite. 3NT might be chosen by a player who thinks he is responding to NMF but hasn't a clue how to do so.

[gwnn]

I was sure a new suit by an unpassed responder is forcing, even when opener is limited.

Depends on the sequence :)

 

1C-1S

2C-2H

 

is one bid which most people play as forcing, for instance (natural but sometimes 3 cards). 2D is also played as forcing although many pairs use it artificially (in which case 2H can be natural).

[Hanoi5]

Make your own table.

[Stephen Tu]

Almost impossible, but not quite. 3NT might be chosen by a player who thinks he is responding to NMF but hasn't a clue how to do so.

 

Uh, what's so impossible about this? If it's assumed that 2nt is a minimum non-forcing, no fit, declining an invitation, 2h is fit, and 2s is spades, what else are you supposed to do with a balanced max without a fit? I guess I don't have a clue.

 

3nt is perfectly normal IMO without special agreements, it's described as a normal rebid in Root/Pavlicek. Now, certainly, one could decide to use 2s artificial (esp if 1nt denies spades absolutely), or if the NMF bid had been 2c, not 2d, one could use 2d with min, 2nt with max to save space. But these artificial schemes hardly seem practical in a random pickup BBO, how do you know partner will be on the same wavelength, since there isn't really a universally played scheme? 3nt is the most practical bid under these circumstances.

[aguahombre]

My bad. I had vowed to stay out of thread discussions on NMF and its continuations, since the premise on a NT rebid after a 1H response is not ours, and the uses we can make of the convention are not shared by others.

[barmar]

I thought the difference is that with NMF the suit bid isn't natural.

That's my understanding as well. The other way to read it is that the new minor is the ONLY forcing rebid by responder. So better names might have been "New Minor Artificial" or "Only New Minor Forcing". But it's too late, the name we have is what everyone knows these days (just as "Unusual 2NT" is not very unusual).

It never ceases to amaze me how basic some of the holes in my bidding knowledge are. I was sure a new suit by an unpassed responder is forcing, even when opener is limited.

If you are playing NMF, then 1m-1♠-1NT-2♥ is non-forcing, since you're would use NMF to show a stronger hand.

[Vampyr]

I was sure a new suit by an unpassed responder is forcing, even when opener is limited.

 

It's normally the case only when opener's rebid is 1NT. This is why various checkback schemes have been developed.

[the hog]

Huh? Why would it be non-forcing? Responder is still unlimited.

That being said, with a strong hand, you can afford to show suits in their natural order, i.e. longest first.

Of course it is non forcing. That is bridge basics. Opener has limited the strength of his hand. you have shown 5H and 4Ds and offered opener a choice of where to play.

[the hog]

Depends on the sequence :)

 

1C-1S

2C-2H

 

is one bid which most people play as forcing, for instance (natural but sometimes 3 cards). 2D is also played as forcing although many pairs use it artificially (in which case 2H can be natural).

 

YOU might play this as forcing. MOST people don't. 3 cards? Never!

[kenberg]

I once was playing a hand where I had a really good hand. I don't remember exactly other than that I had 7 diamonds, 5 hearts, and a singleton A of some other suit, and I think I had 3 total A and some other good stuff, but I don't know the details. I had for so long been hoping to maybe someday get dealt something like the ultimate hand, and though I don't remember it exactly, I think this hand wasn't too far away from being one. In any case, my partner opened 1♣ and I thought it was best to show a 5-card major first if I had one, so I responded 1♥ and then he bid 1NT. I didn't think he'd use NMF so I just bid 2♦ as I figured he'd at least take it as forcing, and then he jumped to 3NT. I don't like it when players bid this kind of thing since it makes me wonder if their hand really might be stronger than the 12-14 I normally consider the 1NT response, so I didn't very well know what he had. In any case, I still knew we should have a diamond fit since he bid NT before I ever showed diamonds, and so I figured he'd have at least 2 of them, and iirc I made some ridiculous-looking diamond bid, and then he booted me from the table and wouldn't even let me play the hand. I was so disappointed since I'd been searching for so long and had so rarely ever gotten hands even this good that I really wanted to play it. I looked it up in the results afterwards and remember whoever showed up did make the contract that I had bid. In any case, does someone have some words of wisdom as to how I can not get booted from the table apparently just for an apparently bad bid?

 

First, you have to accept that there are a lot of people who know a lot less than they think they do and boot you or leave as soon as something goes wrong.

 

However, you have some misconceptions. Before nmf, 1C-1H-1N-2D was played as non-forcing. Think about it. Sometimes you have shape and a six count. You respond in your five card hear suit, partner bids 1NT on his 12-14, maybe you have five diamonds so probably you have a diamond fit, or maybe a heart fit, you bid 2D, pass or correct. That was the idea. So, in theory at least, a non-forcing 2D could be useful. Of course this almost never happened. Partner has 12-14, you have a weak hand, the opponents most likely have been in with their spades long before you ever got to your second call. Usually anyway. So 2D became artificial and forcing. Almost everyone plays this, or some variant. . Partner presumably took 2D as nmf with an invit hand or better, and with his max just decided to make the practical call of 3NT.

 

I suggest that you put on your profile that you prefer SAYC with nmf, Capp, standard leads and carding. Or skip the Capp if you prefer. Then follow it. You will still have rude parnters leaving in a huff, I have never found a way to prevent this, but you will also have people who like playing the same way and will stick around even when things go wrong.

 

Good luck.

 

By the way: 1C-1D-1NT-2H is game forcing (or at least forcing, and I think most would say game forcing) and shows more diamonds than hearts. If you had, as you say, a really good hand with more diamonds than hearts, that would be a good way to bid it. Bidding diamonds, then the higher ranking hearts, is a totally different situation from 1C-1S-1N-2H which most play as pass or correct, a weak hand with five spades and four hearts.

[Vampyr]

YOU might play this as forcing. MOST people don't. 3 cards? Never!

 

I think that most people do, actually, unless they play some sort of artificial continuations over 2♣.

[aguahombre]

I think that most people do, actually, unless they play some sort of artificial continuations over 2♣.

I have nearly given up trying to guess what most people do.

 

1C-1S

2C...I will stick my neck out and suggest pass is non-forcing and 2S is non-forcing for most people (Although the 2S rebid actually has a G.F. contingent). We happen to choose 2D as the forcing alertable noise similar to NMF, but 2H natural and passable.