DarrenE Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [hv=pc=n&w=saqjthat95daq9c83&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=p1c(16+)p1n(GF%208+%20No%205%20card%20suit)p2c(Asks%20how%20strong)p2s(14+)p2n(Relay)p3c(Nat%204+)p3h(4)p4hp]133|200[/hv] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 What is last train when it's above our suit supposed to be? Anyway I bid rkc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masse24 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I am no expert, but, Pass :blink: is out of the question. Any response to RKCB should be safe, (hope to hear 5♥/♠). Gotta go... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 What is last train when it's above our suit supposed to be? Anyway I bid rkc.I call that Train Has Left, which is a request to either ask or answer, depending upon some issue. For example, ask with a void but answer with a stiff. Something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I ask for kings - MZB (Medium Zooming Blackwood). Hopefully pard has at least four. Then I will check on aces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 So partner is 14+ but unlimited? I think you should be forced to the 5 level if suit agreement was made at the 4 level (ie, 4H should be forcing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMoe Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 4♠ inviting partner bid RKB or controls. Not interpret 4♠ as Last Train. We are likely safe at 5 level. Risk (tho small) appears partner is ♠K ♥KQ ♦K ♣QJ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Pass is out, we have 30+, responder did not limit his hand to at most 14HCP,he showed 14+, we have a 8 card fit, and have lots of controls. The only downside maybe, that partner seems to hold a bal. shape, i.e. we willneed HCP power to make it. I would go with 5H, which I play as a quant. invite, RKCB wont help, we will have the key cards, we need to know, if partner is min or if he has something to spare.The only downside of 5H is, that we may miss a Grand. 4S should be a cue, indicating a void, since otherwise we would be able to bid 4NT. With kind regardsMarlwoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Wouldn't 4♣ or 4♦ by partner have been a cue-bid? If the failure to cue-bid shows an unsuitable hand, we should pass. He won't have what we need, and it would be silly to get to the five-leve opposite Kxx KQxx Kx QJxx or Kx Qxxx KJx KQxx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 If we consider pass at this point then we should had bid 3NT the round before and let parnter bid. I would just move on, I would prefer a general slam try such as 5♥ (or 4♠ if you have it) than blackwood, we have too much values on pointed suits, with these AQs slam is often 50% or very poor due to trump quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Pass is out, we have 30+, responder did not limit his hand to at most 14HCP,he showed 14+, we have a 8 card fit, and have lots of controls. He limited his hand to super minimum (in 14+ range) by bidding 4H. 4S should be a cue, indicating a void, since otherwise we would be able to bid 4NT. We also bid cues when we are missing controls and/or are unsure about our combined assets being enough for a slam. I would pass I think partner shouldn't bid 4H with any hand which makes slam good opposite what we have.4S is an option if 4H has wider range than I think it should have. RKC is judgement blunder imo. Not only we are not strong enough to force slam (which we should be if we use RKC) but we are also missing club control and partner very likely doesn't have it either for his negative 4H bid. If he does have it along with decent hand (Kx KQxx Jx KQxxx) RKC won't solve our problems anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoshy Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Thank you gnasher and bluecalm, I was going crazy reading the earlier responses. This is a pass in my sleep. Our stacked rounded suits are opposite five of partner's cards and we know that partner's values are scattered and soft rather than sharp and concentrated. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoshy Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 If we consider pass at this point then we should had bid 3NT the round before and let parnter bid. I would just move on, I would prefer a general slam try such as 5♥ (or 4♠ if you have it) than blackwood, we have too much values on pointed suits, with these AQs slam is often 50% or very poor due to trump quality. Also, why would we bid 3NT before? We got the crucial information that partner has a bad minimum. What else would 4♣ and 4♦ be other than cuebids agreeing ♥? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 This is the kind of thing that happens when you start describing your shape at the 3 level. It seems to me that with both hands unlimited, the 4m cues should be obligatory with a heart fit. That being the case, we would have an obvious pass now without a club control. An alternative would be for 4♣ to show a minimum (Frivolous) and 4♦/4♥/4♠ to show serious slam interest and a diamond/club/spade control respectively. In short, my view is that this is not an expert level judgement decision but rather an expert level bidding theory discussion. I suspect that almost any expert level bidding system would not have a serious problem with the hands (will judge that when we see partner's hand after the discussion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I swear I only clicked Post once, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_20686 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I would drive 6H here. Partner has some minimal 14 count with 4 hearts and four clubs, but we have a really nice 17 count. Kxx KQxx xx KQxx makes slam very good. I too believe that four level cues should be obligatory on this sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 If we consider pass at this point then we should had bid 3NT the round before and let parnter bid. Why? It's not inconsistent to bid 3♥, planning to cooperate opposite a 4♣ cue-bid, pass a 4♥ signoff, and invite in notrumps opposite 3♠ or 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 If we consider pass at this point then we should had bid 3NT the round before and let parnter bid. Partner is unlimited and has 4 clubs. 4-4 heart fit will often provide 12th or 13th trick (club ruff) so we gotta show hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 4♣ is natural 5 card, not a cuebid. 4♦ is the only cuebid avaible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 4♣ is natural 5 card, not a cuebid. 4♦ is the only cuebid avaible.How can 4♣ show 5 when 1NT denied a 5 card suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 4♣ is natural 5 card, not a cuebid. 4♦ is the only cuebid avaible. Meh. If I wanted to show clubs I would show clubs instead of bal hand somewhere around 1st round of bidding.Imo cue-bid (or some sort of good H raise) is much more useful here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 How can 4♣ show 5 when 1NT denied a 5 card suit? OP made a typo somewhere, 3♣ shows 4+ so 5 shouldbe possible, most normal is that 1NT can have 5cm but not 5cM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Kxx KQxx xx KQxx makes slam very good.Not really "very good". If trumps are 3-2 you are not home by any means, you will still need the ace of clubs onside or the diamond finesse as you lack the entries to ruff two clubs in hand. At a rough estimate, the slam is 75% around 68% of the time and 12.5% around 28% of the time and no play 4% of the time. I make that around 54%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 What is the form of scoring by the way ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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