Balrog49 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Defending against a game, partner led the king of his AKxxx suit and cashed the ace, me following with the 10 and 2 from QTxx. Partner thought I had a doubleton and played a third round of diamonds, giving declarer a ruff-sluff that lost the only chance to beat the contract. Is there a way to distinguish between situations where you have two or four of the opening leader's suit? In case you're wondering, I couldn't support partner's suit on this hand. I had a flat three-count. We would have gone for -1100. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Tu Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Your signal is normally attitude in this situation if it's below the 5 level. Partner is not going to be able to distinguish between QTxx and Tx. So it depends on dummy and the rest of your hand. If you clearly want a shift, and partner is clearly going to play you for a doubleton as best chance to beat the contract if you encourage, then the obvious answer is to discourage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balrog49 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Your signal is normally attitude in this situation if it's below the 5 level. Partner is not going to be able to distinguish between QTxx and Tx. So it depends on dummy and the rest of your hand. If you clearly want a shift, and partner is clearly going to play you for a doubleton as best chance to beat the contract if you encourage, then the obvious answer is to discourage!My actual hand was xxx xx QTxx Jxxx. A long time ago, I was taught that you encourage when you have nothing safe for partner to shift to. Which is the lesser of evils here? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 One common agreement is: -- K asks for Kount -- A asks for Attitude No way to to distinguish between 2 or 4 . Partner will have to rely on dummy and the bidding for clues, if any . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 One common agreement is: -- K asks for Kount -- A asks for Attitude No way to to distinguish between 2 or 4 . Partner will have to rely on dummy and the bidding for clues, if any . If you have 4 and have not supported, it's suicide to peter. Sometimes it's best to lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Tu Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 My actual hand was xxx xx QTxx Jxxx. A long time ago, I was taught that you encourage when you have nothing safe for partner to shift to. Which is the lesser of evils here? It also depends on dummy and the auction, not just your hand. Also, you need a partner who is good enough to know that signals are "suggestions, not commands", and that he is not absolved from the duty to think about the possible layouts and the possibility that you may have an awkward hand to make an accurate signal from, and not assume too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Don't play count here it's source of many disasters.One exception could be if declarer showed 5-4+ hand then count makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 My actual hand was xxx xx QTxx Jxxx. A long time ago, I was taught that you encourage when you have nothing safe for partner to shift to. Which is the lesser of evils here? It's beginning to sound as though partner had it down in his own hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwar0123 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 If you have 4 and have not supported, it's suicide to peter. Sometimes it's best to lie.What if partner takes you for 3 and decides continuing is safe? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balrog49 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 It's beginning to sound as though partner had it down in his own hand.Actually, opener had to guess a queen with AJT opposite K9x with nothing to go on other than the bidding. The ruff-sluff removed the guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Actually, opener had to guess a queen with AJT opposite K9x with nothing to go on other than the bidding. The ruff-sluff removed the guess. In that case, it's vital to conceal QTxx from declarer, since he will never get the guess wrong given no raise, four trumps and a doubleton heart. Partner will just have to look after himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Tu Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 What if partner takes you for 3 and decides continuing is safe? You have to have an agreement whether the signal is attitude or count. The usual recommendation is count at the 5 level or above, attitude at the 4 level or below, unless you are playing some sort of A for attitude K for count scheme. If your agreement is attitude, then partner should consider that you might be discouraging from 4 and that continuing may not be safe when dummy is void. If your agreement is count, then obviously you echo, but then partner should not auto play you for a doubleton and consider that you might have 4. In all cases partner should not be simply blindly following your signals, he should always be looking for defensive lines that succeed regardless of what you may hold, lines which work most often. Your signal is just additional data for him to combine with knowledge of his own hand, dummy, and the auction, not the sole consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 It does not follow that if you play count you have to tell the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 One common agreement is: -- K asks for Kount -- A asks for Attitude No way to to distinguish between 2 or 4 . Partner will have to rely on dummy and the bidding for clues, if any . If you don't want to lead Q from KQ sometimes, then I think it is slightly better to lead A for count, K for attitude, for cases where you have led from KQ10, KQ9 or KQxx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 One common agreement is: -- K asks for Kount -- A asks for Attitude Yes. It's common and bad.At 5 level or in specific situations sure but those "are you ruffing this pd ?" situations are very common and this agreement cripples you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 All your 4 cards are equal if you know partner has AKxxx, so you can throw them in best order to avoid the problem. You can agree whatever, but I like to show 4 to the count with 3rd and then 4th. This means than High-x is always doubleton, and we only get into a mess when we have doubleton of the 2 lowest spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowerline Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 If you don't want to lead Q from KQ sometimes, then I think it is slightly better to lead A for count, K for attitude, for cases where you have led from KQ10, KQ9 or KQxx. This has other problems: if you lead the K from AKx and partner signals positive you have no idea whether he has the J or the Q... And does partner always play low from a doubleton on the lead of the K? And what do you lead from KQxxx? Steven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Commonly on a K lead neither defender knows how many cards the other has in the suit, and play length-showing. From QT72 the T then 2 to show 2 or 4 is often used - 2nd highest then lowest. Leader should consider if partner played high low "is it consistent with 4 cards on that basis?" Many times it is not, so he can safely give a ruff. But if it is consistent, and 4 cards would give declarer a ruff and discard, and the bidding gives no hint as to declarer's length, then it is usually best to switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 This has other problems: if you lead the K from AKx and partner signals positive you have no idea whether he has the J or the Q... This is true. It doesn't seem to come up often enough to cause a problem, though. And does partner always play low from a doubleton on the lead of the K? Of course; why wouldn't he? And what do you lead from KQxxx? This normally depends on whether we hold the 8 or higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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