Scary

[gnasher]

[hv=pc=n&s=sath5dj974cat6542&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1c(Clubs%20or%2011-14%20bal)p1hp2h]133|200[/hv]

Matchpoints. 1♣ was clubs or any 11-14 balanced.

 

You can bid 2NT to show four diamonds and longer clubs, if you want to. Would you?

[BunnyGo]

[hv=pc=n&s=sath5dj974cat6542&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1c(Clubs%20or%2011-14%20bal)p1hp2h]133|200[/hv]

Matchpoints. 1♣ was clubs or any 11-14 balanced.

 

You can bid 2NT to show four diamonds and longer clubs, if you want to. Would you?

 

I assume that 2♥ is any hand with 4 hearts and 11-16 points?

 

If so, I think I still pass, but it's close (of course, or you wouldn't be posting).

 

I think that this auction is likely similar to any other table (1m-1H-2H-??) and that at these colors I don't have the strength nor safety, even if I have the shape. If West were a passed hand (or 1H denies strength) then it's more likely I'd compete, but he could have a GF hand himself here, and I'm about to get doubled a set, fun times.

[Codo]

If I have this system bid and do not use it here, when will I ever use it- just white/red?

 

It is mps, we passed already...

 

But: if we are scared to bid- and I am- maybe we should find a better way to handle these hands?

[paulg]

I assume that 2♥ is any hand with 4 hearts and 11-16 points?

I'd expect that two hearts could be a three-card raise if a minimum 4=3=1=5 and this is why I'm reluctant to wade in with minimum values and no guarantee of a fit.

[PhilKing]

2NT, feeling no pain - yet.

[wyman]

I'm a bidder, slightly unhappy if LHO dbls (but even then it might be ok), but on balance I think 2N is right here.

[aguahombre]

I think that this auction is likely similar to any other table (1m-1H-2H-??) and that at these colors I don't have the strength nor safety, even if I have the shape.

The rabbit's got it right.

[MickyB]

2N is clear to me. I'm not bothered whether 2H promised four or not - If oppo sometimes raise on three-card support that makes it harder for partner to protect with three or four poor hearts, in which case I, as the one holding a singleton heart, need to be the one to act.

[andy_h]

Yes I bid 2NT and I don't find it that scary, I want to fight for the partscore looking at my singleton heart. If RHO does have clubs, then there's a good chance that either partner will have a diamond fit for us, or LHO will compete further in hearts.

[PhilKing]

It would be clear to pass if the problem were posted in the "Interesting Bridge Hands" section. :(

[lalldonn]

I seriously have a bid available to show 4 diamonds 5+ clubs? Bidding isn't even scary any more.

[JLOGIC]

I'd pass, guess I'm exposing who was on lalldonn on this one :P

[JLOGIC]

In reading this thread it seems like a lot of people are acting like we are in the balancing seat, or at least are willfully ignoring that we are not.

 

Things like "fighting for the partscore" are great, but they are better when the other hand has limited his hand and we know it's a partscore hand. We will often immediately be dead when LHO has 10+ and doubles 2N. Even if he doesn't and we push them to 3H, that is not necessarily a win as they might make it, or thy might play it a trick better with knowledge of the distribution.

 

Don't get me wrong, it is good to push them to 3H but I just think mentally people chalk that up as a win when it only is some %age of the time.

 

It seems to me like it is more likely we will go for 200 or 500+, or they will play 3H or 4H better after our bid, than that we will push them to 3H and beat it, or that we will make a partscore or go for 100 on their partscore. I am especially bothered by the not terribly unlikely chance that we will just be dead when we bid 2N and it goes X, that seems like a zero or a near zero automatically pretty often. I also think them declaring and playing it better/picking up trumps/whatever is scary. I don't think the upside is there to compensate for these things.

 

As always in these spots quality of opps a factor, and it is right to be more aggressive the worse your opps are. Some people don't agree with this since "they will play 2H badly anyways" but I think they are not maximally taking advantage of the opponents weaknesses with that attitude. They are less likely to double, less likely to beat you 200 undoubled when they can, and less likely to pick you off because of your bid when they end up declaring. They are also more likely to hav bad judgement (ie, compete too often) over 3m.

[lalldonn]

In reading this thread it seems like a lot of people are acting like we are in the balancing seat, or at least are willfully ignoring that we are not.

It seems like some other people need to put down their purses and grow a pair :P

[gnasher]

I seriously have a bid available to show 4 diamonds 5+ clubs?

What else could 2NT mean?

[lalldonn]

What else could 2NT mean?

5-5 minors? Also I bet for some pairs (such as gib!) it means 5-5 unbid suits although that seems silly.

[aguahombre]

What else could 2NT mean?

That might depend on whether you had a bid over 1C to show 10 or eleven cards in the pointed suits or a real minor 2-suiter.

 

BTW: I am not convinced that Justin or Josh isn't using both alter egos just to mess with us.

[JLOGIC]

What else could 2NT mean?

 

I am with you, I think it is weird to not overcall 1D with 5-5, but I guess it's a reasonable way to bid (trying to get both minors in)?

 

That said, I would think I would bid this way with 4-6 and overcall 1D with 5-5 as my standard way of bidding. I guess it might depend if you play 2C natural over 1C.

[lalldonn]

Justin told me he thought for sure this was 4-6, I would have thought 5-5. I asked Geoff Hampson and he said 5-5 but also he always plays 2♣ over 1♣ as natural so for him there won't be a 4-6 often. I'm going to try to get more opinions.

[PhilKing]

Justin told me he thought for sure this was 4-6, I would have thought 5-5. I asked Geoff Hampson and he said 5-5 but also he always plays 2♣ over 1♣ as natural so for him there won't be a 4-6 often. I'm going to try to get more opinions.

 

What do they play 1♦ then 3♣ as?

 

Surely that's the 55 and this is the 46. It's not as if you can do it the other way round, whoever you are (unless you play a conventional diamond, which is allowed in England :) ), nor could you be sure of getting a second chance.

[MickyB]

Phil, I think you mentioned a similar sequence recently - 1D-p-1H-p; 1N-2C as 5D4C. Not an idea I've come across before, but I like it, if only to stop one of my partners from wandering back in with 2C to show a hand too bad to overcall 2C or 3C the first time! Any pitfalls to this agreement, e.g. situations where it is unclear if it should apply?

[PhilKing]

Phil, I think you mentioned a similar sequence recently - 1D-p-1H-p; 1N-2C as 5D4C. Not an idea I've come across before, but I like it, if only to stop one of my partners from wandering back in with 2C to show a hand too bad to overcall 2C or 3C the first time! Any pitfalls to this agreement, e.g. situations where it is unclear if it should apply?

 

It applies to any delayed overcall in a live auction, and promises a good hand. In some situations it strongly suggest 55 rather than 54.

 

I agree that it's main benefit can be to stop partner bidding on trash. But let's say you are playing against the Hackett's or Price/Simpson (I am only telling you this because you are currently in the second division). They open 1♥ and you are 55 in the reds. You pass and it continues 1♠ p 1NT or 1♠ p 2♠. You now bid diamonds. The two level bid can be on a suitable 54, the three level would have to be 55. Doubling on either auction is three-suited take-out of spades.

 

In the auction here, 2♠ would logically show four spades and six clubs playing this method, or 45 if you are feeling very lucky.

[MrAce]

Justin told me he thought for sure this was 4-6, I would have thought 5-5. I asked Geoff Hampson and he said 5-5 but also he always plays 2♣ over 1♣ as natural so for him there won't be a 4-6 often. I'm going to try to get more opinions.

 

 

I also would have bid 2♣ as natural previous round. Thats what i always talk to pds when opps are playing possible short clubs.

 

But i assume that was not available, so now it is close call for me. Knowing myself, i would probably bid it though, especially when my pdship agreed what it exactly shows. (2 NT i mean)

[bluecalm]

It doesn't look scary to me, should I be worried ? :)

The hand was tad too weak for vulnerable 2C opposite unpassed partner imo.

We obviously won't be 5-5 here as we would have either bid 2NT (if that show minors and we had suitable hand) or 1D round before.

 

I asked Geoff Hampson and he said 5-5

 

Really ?

What kind of hand passes 1C and bids 2NT now ? It is surely more useful for 6-4.

[aguahombre]

We didn't have the natural 2C/1C available, and we didn't have the delayed 2NT after passing 1C available for 4-6m. I think I am glad those options weren't there for the temptation at these colors.

 

Will take a guess that partner has 8 cards in the majors. I don't need to guess that partner did not want to bid at her first turn. If we could find the right minor to play, if there is a right minor to play, and if we can make exactly 3m and they exactly 2H we lose by not acting. Otherwise, we break-even or have a disaster.