Hanoi5 Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 All red, imp's: ♠xx♥Q98xxxx♦Q43♣J (2♦*)-Pa-(2♥**)-3♣(Pa)-??? *Multi**Pass or correct Do you pass or bid your 7-card suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloa513 Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 All red, imp's: ♠xx♥Q98xxxx♦Q43♣J (2♦*)-Pa-(2♥**)-3♣(Pa)-??? *Multi**Pass or correct Do you pass or bid your 7-card suit?Any feeling on the nature of partner's defence to the multi? E.g. does he treat the 2♥ as natural and possibly double for takeout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Any feeling on the nature of partner's defence to the multi? E.g. does he treat the 2♥ as natural and possibly double for takeout. Partner's double would be for TO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 I'm bidding 3♥ fully expecting that this may not end well. The 2♥ bid as pass or correct may have short spades with partner having length in both black suits but if I'm lucky enough to catch a reasonable heart fit, pard must have quite a decent hand to come in at the 3 level here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 I pass. The auction is effectively the same as if LHO had opened a weak 2S and partner had overcalled 3C (although partner's minimum is slightly higher as he could have passed 2H and then protected 2S). I wouldn't bid then, so I don't bid now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 I do not need too much to make 4 ♥, so I go for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 There is a pretty decent chance that four of a major is cold. If I bid 3♥, LHO will often jump to 4♠, make an easy ten tricks, and I will end with egg on my face. If I pass, he will assume his partner has hearts and we will buy the hand in 3♣. Forget about the chance of making Four Hearts - it's a mirage. If we find partner with a fit, the chances of pushing them to 4♠ is close to 100%. They may well go off but I would rather not push them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 There is a pretty decent chance that four of a major is cold. If I bid 3♥, LHO will often jump to 4♠, make an easy ten tricks, and I will end with egg on my face. If I pass, he will assume his partner has hearts and we will buy the hand in 3♣. Forget about the chance of making Four Hearts - it's a mirage. If we find partner with a fit, the chances of pushing them to 4♠ is close to 100%. They may well go off but I would rather not push them. The idea that they will pass out 3♣ when cold for 4♠ is insulting to them and I reject that as a matter of general policy. If they are palookas, we will beat them sooner or later and neither one of them has shown any strength yet. My pard has a serious hand to step into a live auction, red at the 3 level and with a stiff club and diamond piece I'll confidently take my chances on defence and I agree that there is a decent chance that 4 of a major is cold, just not spades. The pass by my rho over 3♣ is a sign of weakness, feebleness or not knowing how to play multi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 The idea that they will pass out 3♣ when cold for 4♠ is insulting to them and I reject that as a matter of general policy. If they are palookas, we will beat them sooner or later and neither one of them has shown any strength yet.The idea that they will pass out 3♣ when cold for 4♠ arises from the ambiguity in their methods. If responder is looking at 4=1 in the majors, why should he think they have 4♠ on? My pard has a serious hand to step into a live auction, red at the 3 level and with a stiff club and diamond piece I'll confidently take my chances on defence and I agree that there is a decent chance that 4 of a major is cold, just not spades. The pass by my rho over 3♣ is a sign of weakness, feebleness or not knowing how to play multi.RHO has a hand which he evaluated as a weak two in spades. Since then he has received no encouragement whatsoever. Why do you expect him to bid? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 RHO already passed 3 ♣, he won't reevaluate now. But if they have so much stuff, that 4 ♠ is cold, maybe LHO will- he does not need to hold 4-1 in the majors, he may have 4-3 or 3-3... But anyway: Our partner bid into a multi bidding sequence. With my club shortage I would not belive that 4 ♠ makes at all. OF course it is possible- but not likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [hv=pc=n&s=s65hq987532dq42cj&w=sqT74hadajt9ca876&n=sahkj4d76ckqt9542&e=skJ9832ht6dk853c3]399|300[/hv] This is the kind of layout (there are worse) you might run into ... And I don't buy this stuff about partner showing a great hand to overcall. Seriously guys, where does that come from? I'd be interested to see a construction where bidding 3♥ works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [hv=pc=n&s=s65hq987532dq42cj&w=sqjt9hajtdk985c52&n=s2hk4dajtcaqt9876&e=sak8743h6d763ck43&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=2dp2h3cp3h]399|300[/hv] 3 Heart works well.. My God, of course you will find hands where you may help them into their making 4 Spades... And there are hands where you better bid now or you miss your game or a juicy penalty. This is no surprise, is it? And of course partner has a good hand- the one you gave him is good, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_Wolf Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 multi users miss big fits quite often. recently we picked up a double slam swing when a player with ♠AKQxxxx could not believe his pard had a weak 2 in spades :D Oh and we scored +1 in our slam after a trick one ruff-sluff! yay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) 3 Heart works well and you need even less from partner... My God, of course you will find hands where you may help them into their making 4 Spades... And there are hands where you better bid now or you miss your game or a juicy penalty. This is no surprise, is it? And of course partner has a good hand- the one you gave him is good, isn't it? Yep, nice. :) I am still awaiting elucidation for not overcalling 3♣ with, say, Ax xx Kxx KQT9xx, which is a completely routine minimum for me. I gave partner a good hand because I am a kind person - not because I think he needs one. Edited October 15, 2012 by PhilKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 multi users miss big fits quite often. Not if they know what they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Not if they know what they are doing. Please tell us how they divine that partner's major is spades here ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [hv=pc=n&s=s65hq987532dq42cj&w=sqT74hadajt9ca876&n=sahkj4d76ckqt9542&e=skJ9832ht6dk853c3]399|300[/hv] This is the kind of layout (there are worse) you might run into ... On this one I can't imagine a competent pair not getting to 4♠ on their own steam, ie. double of 3♣ shows decent values making the 2♥ pass or correct bid one that prefers spades over hearts. Trade wests ♣A for pards ♣K and I think 4 of both majors makes and a 5♥ sac is only down 1. Doesn't sound like a sac either. I don't pretend that a 3♥ bid is 100% but feel like it's much more than 50% to work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 On this one I can't imagine a competent pair not getting to 4♠ on their own steam, ie. double of 3♣ shows decent values making the 2♥ pass or correct bid one that prefers spades over hearts. For virtually all players in England, double of 3♣ is penalties, which gets them a lucky one off here. Only a double of 2M is played as take-out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 For virtually all players in England, double of 3♣ is penalties, which gets them a lucky one off here. Only a double of 2M is played as take-out. Fair enough but over here it's more commonly defensive values, enough to go plus most often but not 100% penalty as you are doubling in front of their club suit and that's where I take the inference that the 2♥ pass or correct bid must prefer spades to hearts. If pards multi bid had hearts we will hurt them right here and by revealing these values I could have bid 2♠ as pass or correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Fair enough but over here it's more commonly defensive values, enough to go plus most often but not 100% penalty as you are doubling in front of their club suit and that's where I take the inference that the 2♥ pass or correct bid must prefer spades to hearts. If pards multi bid had hearts we will hurt them right here and by revealing these values I could have bid 2♠ as pass or correct. So double is pen opposite hearts and take-out opposite spades? That is how I interpret the second paragraph. Have I understood this correctly. Not that you really have a penalty double opposite hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 So double is pen opposite hearts and take-out opposite spades? That is how I interpret the second paragraph. Have I understood this correctly. Not that you really have a penalty double opposite hearts. Pretty much correct but the double is a suggestion that pard can overrule with ♥KQJTxx and out but leave it in with worse hearts and a piece or two outside since I've already denied game interest opposite hearts yet show positive values by the double. There are a lot of chunky hands that I would not risk double on without being able to count 3 3/4 likely defensive tricks. In a free run if pard had corrected to spades I was raising or in this case if I'm loaded in the minors and can't stand partner pulling the double I'm just passing 3♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Any chance of posting the hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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