Penalty or take out

[120248]

Hi everyone !

I just want your opinion on this :

 

ME

1♣ P 1♠ 2♦

2♠ P P 3♦

X

 

MY hand : ♠KQ98 ♥ A42 ♦ 2 ♣ Q9864

Part : ♠AT543 ♥Q73 ♦ T93 ♣ A5

 

I was trying to let part choose between 3♦X and 3♠

Am i right or should have bid directly 3♠ myself ?

My part pass for penalty and we had a 0.Should he bid 3♠?

[ahydra]

When you have found a fit, double is normally penalty. So partner did the right thing.

 

You need a lot from a partner that can't raise 2S in order to beat 3D - I would just bid 3S.

 

I'm wondering if anyone has situations where they play doubles like these as "optional" though, might be useful particularly at pairs.

 

ahydra

[aguahombre]

You will probably find some support from regular posters who believe we pretty much be "doing something" all the time. I find that partners are capable of making choices in competitive auctions if my bids have meant something, and I don't see how your double of 3D should mean what you wanted it to mean.

 

Partner, on the other hand, might have rebid 3S on the previous round unless it denied true invitational strength (some other game try otherwise); and she is certainly capable of bidding again this time if you don't create confusion with the double.

[billw55]

You already opened an 11 count (which I agree with in this case) and made your minimum rebid. I would just pass over 3♦. Why double to give partner a choice when partner will have a choice anyway? The only answer is to show something that you have not shown yet, which you do not have. After a pass, partner with his actual hand will certainly bid 3♠ on his own. In effect, your double prevented him from doing the normal and successful thing.

[ggwhiz]

I play this double as extra values (it's our hand) without a clear direction. Something like a 4-3-2-4 14 count with defensive cards outside of spades with pard to decide.

 

You don't have the extras and you do have a clear direction with that stiff diamond. I would just bid 3♠ but don't mind passing the decision to pard at all.

[Codo]

There is a bid that let partner decide: It is called pass.

 

Any bid from your side shows something. Double shows at least a maximum pass. I guess ggwhiz way to play it is the most common one.

 

I had passed with your hand, if I had been in the pass out seat with your hand, I had tried 3 ♠.

[jdeegan]

:P Since your hand really justifies bidding on, why would you double?

You are thinking negative double, maybe, but pard is sitting in front of the bidder.

A co-operate double might make some sense at MP's assuming you are convinced it's your hand, but you have a stiff diamond!

[cargobeep]

Your partner should bid 3S in this position (possibly 4S), after which you may or may not decide to bid 4S.

 

Doubling was the mistake.

[barmar]

Do you play support doubles? If you do, partner knows you have a 9-card fit, so he will almost certainly bid 3♠ if you pass. Your double says you would prefer to defend, so he doesn't do that.

[MrAce]

I think you should have passed 3♦ or bid 3♠ yourself due to stiff ♦. I prefer pass myself. I dunno what that double showed, it can't be extras with ♦ shortness or you would have bid 3♠ at the first place. So it is probably showing a balanced 14 ish hand with defensive values, which makes pass by your pd pretty reasonable. But if you would not bid 3♠ with same hand and a 13-14 hcp and double now showed this (which doesnt make too much sense to me btw for a lot of reasons) then your pd has an obvious 4♠ bid now, not 3♠, he has perfect holdings with no diamond wastage.

 

I agree with those who says pd would have bid 3♠ had you decided to pass, with 9 card fit and that the bidding should have gone accordingly.

[Fluffy]

partner forgot to invite to game.

 

doubling 3♦ is wrong, you have exactly the opposite hand for the bid: unbalanced, minimum, with no diamonds. When it should be balanced, maximum with something in diamonds.

 

its hard to know why partner didn't want to invite to game, but you should IMO bid 3♠ if you are playing MPs, or also if 2♠ can be bid with 3 cards. Pass otherwise.

[bluecalm]

Matter of agreements I guess. I like penalty as we found major suit fit.

I think more interesting are situations where unlimited hand doubles, especially in no support double context, say:

 

1C - p - 1S - dbl

2S - 3D - dbl = ?

[Finch]

On the OP's hand: if you play support doubles so your 2S bid on the first round showed 4-card support then partner had a game try the previous round. Otherwise you are close between pass and 3S over 3D if you haven't already promised four spades. Double is typically penalty (if 2S could be 3-card support) or balanced extras (if 2S promised 4), not a minimum with a singleton diamond.

 

Bluecalm's auction is fundamentally different because the opponents have found a fit rather than one of them bidding twice with no support.

[Trinidad]

Bluecalm's auction is fundamentally different because the opponents have found a fit rather than one of them bidding twice with no support.

And, perhaps more important, responder's strength is still unlimited.

 

Rik