Bid or double over 1 club with 4531?

[plaur]

Matchpoints, all vul

[hv=pc=n&w=saq65hkq864dt95ca&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1c?2cpp?]133|200[/hv]

What do you bid over 1 club?

What do you bid after 2 clubs (partners passes 2 clubs)

 

Any advice how to handle these handtypes better? I found the minus 200 again :(

 

Edit: Changed topic title

[bluecalm]

1H and dbl.

 

Any advice how to handle these handtypes better?

 

Bid your longest suit and then double if you have extras and support for unbid suits.

[madongjun]

What do you bid over 1 club?--1♥

What do you bid after 2 clubs (partners passes 2 clubs)--double

[madongjun]

What do you bid over 1 club?

What do you bid after 2 clubs (partners passes 2 clubs)

 

1♥,double

[the hog]

1♥ and x

[ArtK78]

A treatment that was popular for a time was 2♦ over 1♣ showed 4-5 in the majors. It was called "Leaping Flannery." It is great for this hand, but it had limited value otherwise.

[Codo]

So we all get the -200 after the obvious start... looks like a 50 % score in a good field.

[ahydra]

1H and X looks clear. How does that lead to -200 - does partner have a bunch of clubs (but didn't pass), or was North's raise inverted and South forgot to tell us, or something?

 

ahydra

[plaur]

1H and X looks clear. How does that lead to -200 - does partner have a bunch of clubs (but didn't pass), or was North's raise inverted and South forgot to tell us, or something?

 

ahydra

 

Thank you all. I doubled and doubled. Partner had 3244 and bid 2♦ expecting we had a 8 or 9 card fit. 2♣ is down 1 or 2.

 

Do you ever double 1♣ with 4531 distribution or is it down to the texture and suit quality?

[bluecalm]

Do you ever double 1♣ with 4531 distribution or is it down to the texture and suit quality?

 

There was a thread about it in other subforum lately.

There are two camps and there are a lot of good players in both of them.

[Fluffy]

doubling first is IMO a losing style but I wouldn't call it ridicoulous. I think that more people woud double if they didn't know that they had a perfect hand for 1♥+double next.

 

I see now plaur doubled and it didn't work, there you have an example of why 1♥ is better than double, getting your 5c Major is very important, 5-2 fits are better than 4-3, you are better positioned next, etc.

 

BTW check out partner's hand, so few tricks in diamonds and so few in clubs makes me think he had astrong clubs and passing 2♣ doubled was reasonable at least.

[ggwhiz]

I'm in the 1♥ overcall then double camp to give pard a landing spot for no particular reason except that doubling and landing in the wrong spot is WAY too much aggro.

 

I've seen players occasionally double with 5-4 in the majors catching a heart bid from pards 3-3 which would really spoil my mood.

[plaur]

There was a thread about it in other subforum lately.

There are two camps and there are a lot of good players in both of them.

 

Thanks. I found one thread in the Expert Forum that has a lot of ELC and resp x discussion between rexford and rhm. Is that the one you mean or is there some more basic level intermediate stuff somewhere?

 

btw I changed the title from "Another minus 200" to "Bid or double over 1 club with 4531"

[Fluffy]

it is not exact to say that you double or bid with 4531 there are also range issues, I'll explain:

 

with around 12 HCP and 4531 you bid 1♥, the reason is, you don't have strenght enough to bid again and you will lose 5-3 fit (the most likelly) otherwise. There are ways to recover 4-4 spades and 3-5 diamonds, but hearts are buried.

 

with around 16 HCP and 4531 you bid 1♥, but the reason here is that it leaves very well placed to double next.

 

however with around 20 HCP you double first, becuase you can show hearts later and don't risk a passout.

[PhilKing]

I prefer doubling first. For me I have enough to then bid 2♥. I prefer overcalling and then doubling with 3541 3532 3631 etc (denying 4 spades, in other words). For the heart overcallers, spade length is ambiguous after doubling back in.

[bluecalm]

Is that the one you mean or is there some more basic level intermediate stuff somewhere?

 

I think that's the one.

I don't think you can find any magical information on that. You just need to choose who to believe or make your own judgement. Mine is that overcalling with a suit is almost always better and to even consider a double I would need something along the lines of AQJx 8xxxx Axx x.

My understanding is that most world class players also play this style although I remember there were some hands Fantoni-Nunes doubled on last time I researched this.

 

You were unlucky on this hand or maybe partner should've passed 2C. I don't know. Usually when it goes double-double and you have what you did have you will be ok :)