ArtK78 Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Playing matchpoints with my regular partner, we conspired to produced the following auction (2/1 game forcing except when responder rebids his suit): 1♦ - 1♥2♣ - 3NT4♥ - ? Question: What does 4NT mean over 4♥? For now, I will not present the hands, as they would poison the discussion. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 First, tell me what 4S over 4H means.Or for that matter 5C,5D,5H?Now I can be sure 4NT isn't the same thing, but redundant.I like 4NT as general Q-bid, up-looking unless partner passes.I suspect this is a minority view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Sometimes, like here, 4NT is just RKC. If responder had any interest in a slow cuebiddy auction, he should have rebid 2♠ 4SF and then they can find the heart fit and start cuebidding. To me, cuebidding is not something you can back in to - when you make a fast arrivally bid like 3NT cuebidding is off the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't see how it can be RKC. Opener is 0354 + a card that isn't a heart. Responder doesn't have 5 hearts, has a min GF, and wants to play 3N. He really doesn't want to play 4H in a moysian and deal with bad breaks because he has like AKQx / 9xxx / Kx / Jxx. I think it's to play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't see how it can be RKC. Opener is 0354 + a card that isn't a heart. Responder doesn't have 5 hearts, has a min GF, and wants to play 3N. He really doesn't want to play 4H in a moysian and deal with bad breaks because he has like AKQx / 9xxx / Kx / Jxx. I think it's to play.It's to play - it's even more to play if 4♠ asks for aces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Partner hears our 3 NT bid. He knows that we do not care about spade stoppers nor about 3 card support in hearts and he still bids 4 ♥. If he is not insane, he is making a passable slam try, so he has something like x, AKx,KQJxx,Axxx and hopes for Axxx,Qxxx,Axx,Kx or the like... So 4 NT is RCKB (or a spade cue if you play kickback). If partner tried to improve the contract with x,Kxx,AKxxxx,Axxx or the like, I cannot help him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 4N is to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 4N cannot be keycard. I'll go further: if you ever hold a hand on which you'd want to use keycard as responder, after this auction, the odds are overwhelming that your 3N was a terrible bid. Otoh, 4N as natural makes a great deal of sense when you are, as you often will be on this sequence, 4=4=2=3, with 3+ spade stoppers and weak hearts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 You need a meta rule here: "When partner moves over 3NT a regression to 4NT is to play unless irrational." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Yeah to play. I think opener should be 0-3-6-4 and max for that bidding (or 0-3-5-5 if you play 3C instead of 2C as GF). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhare Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 +1 for 4N to play... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Partner hears our 3 NT bid. He knows that we do not care about spade stoppers nor about 3 card support in hearts and he still bids 4 ♥. If he is not insane, he is making a passable slam try, so he has something like x, AKx,KQJxx,Axxx and hopes for Axxx,Qxxx,Axx,Kx or the like... A good player would not jump to 3NT with this spade holding. He would bid fourth suit. So 4 NT is RCKB (or a spade cue if you play kickback).This does not follow. When playing matchpoints and opener is making a slam try what could possibly be a Moysian heart fit and responder has weak hearts and strong spades, 4NT is needed as natural. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 100% agree with Mike's comment that if responder even wants to bid rkc here then 3NT was not a good bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't see how it can be RKC. Opener is 0354 + a card that isn't a heart. Responder doesn't have 5 hearts, has a min GF, and wants to play 3N. He really doesn't want to play 4H in a moysian and deal with bad breaks because he has like AKQx / 9xxx / Kx / Jxx. I think it's to play.It would not occur to me to respond 1♥ with your example hand. I would respond 1♠ and bypass the hearts for the moment. Nevertheless the principle is sound. Change the spades to KQJx and some corresponding strength elsewhere and the bidding makes sense. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted October 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Thanks, all. I was beginning to think that I had lost my sanity after reading some of the earlier responses. Here were the two hands: ----J74AKT543AQ87 AKT6Q5328K654 1♦ - 1♥2♣ - 3NT4♥ - 4NT6♦ - All Pass Down 2. As responder, I could have raised clubs and forced to game by going through 4th suit forcing, but it seemed like that would take us past our most likely game, 3NT. So I just bid it. When partner decided to suggest playing in the 4-3 heart fit (he could not have 4 hearts on this auction) I had to decide between playing in hearts, notrump and clubs. Rightly or wrongly, I chose notrump, figuring that 4NT was to play. I don't know what my partner was thinking when he bid 6♦, and I probably don't want to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 4NT looks better contract than 5♣ in theory, but in practice I'd rather play 5♣ (not at MPs) BTW some people suggested partner with a singleton spade, this is completelly impossible for me, 6430 or 5530 are the onlyrational shapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 late to the game as usual--- first let me agreee with the 4n as being to play.does anyone see any difference btn the auctions 1d 1h 2c 3n 4h1d 1h 2c 3n 4s1d 1s 2c 3n 4h1d 1s 2c 3n 4s IMO these are identical with the 4 h/s bid by opener showing their fragment.This bidding requires p to have a way to shut things down and that bid is 4n. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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