Fluffy Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (3♥)-4♣-(pass)-4NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Natural for me. I can see it being played as a club slam try without a heart control too. Hope my partners agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwar0123 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 With 4♦ being forcing and 4♥ being very forcing, I would take it as to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 With 4♦ being forcing and 4♥ being very forcing, I would take it as to play.I voted "to play", also. Then I started to overthink :rolleyes: True, 4D is forcing, and 4H is very forcing. However, perhaps we need 4H as a forcing spade bid, since 4S would not be forcing. This is not something we have adopted, but it might be...and it would necessitate 4NT not being to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwar0123 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I voted "to play", also. Then I started to overthink :rolleyes: True, 4D is forcing, and 4H is very forcing. However, perhaps we need 4H as a forcing spade bid, since 4S would not be forcing. This is not something we have adopted, but it might be...and it would necessitate 4NT not being to play.Agreements trump everything, without I think taking this to play is best. Still, I think there will be a lot of hands where notrump is the right contract and giving up any way of getting there may not be best long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I wanted to vote "response to Gerber" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I am simple minded, i am asking keycards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantumcat Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I would play 4♣ as non-leaping Michaels, therefore 4NT is keycard for spades (4♦ would be keycard for clubs) :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Clearly natural to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Natural Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 A useful rule is that if a bid can be usefully played as natural then, in the absence of express agreement otherwise, it is natural. That rule simplifies a lot of sequences, although in my partnerships I flip it for one specific call: 2N. Then I play that 2N in competitive auctions has an artificial meaning unless we have specifically agreed natural. Here, we clearly need to be able to suggest notrump from our side. It is easy to see how this trumps the need to ask for Aces just on frequency grounds. It is also easy to see why 4N may well be a better contract, on many 4♣ overcalls, than 5♣. Since it thus appears that 4N as natural is useful, the discussion about what it means without prior agreement is at an end. What it should be is an entirely different topic. I can see: 4♦ as natural, forcing 4♥ transfer to spades, either to play or forcing, intending to bid again 4♠ as a good raise in clubs, slam try 4N as natural 5♣ as no slam interest. I don't have this agreement with anyone, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Since it thus appears that 4N as natural is useful, the discussion about what it means without prior agreement is at an end. What it should be is an entirely different topic. I can see: 4♦ as natural, forcing 4♥ transfer to spades, either to play or forcing, intending to bid again 4♠ as a good raise in clubs, slam try 4N as natural 5♣ as no slam interest. I don't have this agreement with anyone, of course.Thanks. That completes the picture while leaving 4NT as to play. It seems that with the scheme, partner has no choice over the 4H xfer but to accept it, though; and I would rather she knew it was slammish and could express an opinion at that point. Can't happen, since your 4S "good raise in clubs" is needed, too. Edited October 10, 2012 by aguahombre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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