jdeegan Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 I play KI; 1NT comes up as often as any 5 card suit in responder's hand, and yes it does require discussion, but I'm not sure that Flannery requires less (though I have never played it). But does Flannery help your problem much? Doesn't responder still have to bid 1NT with fewer than 5 spades, and put opener in the same position of rebidding 2♣ on a doubleton, eg 3532? Or do you transfer the problem to a fewer-than-4 diamond suit? At least with KI you have the advantage of being able to play the sequence 1♥ 1♠ 1NT as a balanced 12-14. Presumably that sequence in Flannery shows responder with 5 spades, so this is much rarer than the KI's which is fewer than 5 spades. A big bonus for KI, I would have thought. :P As far as I know you are probably right. I haven't played KI very much. Help me out, tell us what do you need to bid 1NT over 1♥, and how do these auctions play out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bende Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Maybe you should ask partner how this method will affect her when she has a 6/7 or so count and a 6 card heart suit. With hearts she bids 2♦ as it is a transfer bid. If she wants to play diamonds she has to sign-off in 3♦ however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 :P As far as I know you are probably right. I haven't played KI very much. Help me out, tell us what do you need to bid 1NT over 1♥, and how do these auctions play out?In response to 1♥ we play 1♠ <= 4 spades, 1NT >= 5 spades. Both would be 6+hcp, except a subminimum 3 card heart support starts with 1♠, so a say 4 count 5332 shape does not show his spades. Most auctions start 1♥ 1♠. This 1♠ response acts like a forcing NT, makes a 1NT rebid from opener easy and natural, but leaves a partnership problem of finding a 4-4 spade fit. I don't know what is standard here, but as we have already sacrificed a natural 2♣ for the sake of a Gazzilli/Riton sort of strong bid, we choose to sacrifice a natural 2♦ in this sequence to show opener has 4 spades. Don't forget a weakish opener with diamonds can rebid 1NT. However, you could move the 4 spades into the (forcing) 2♣ bid if you preferred. So 1♥ 1NT is 5+ spades, which makes it easy for opener with 3+. Otherwise it acts just like a forcing NT, with the same normal continuations, including a strong 2♣. Nothing special. The only confusion you may get into is if you as opener have 3 spades and a strong hand, and you play kickback. Then you have to apply whatever your agreements are to play in 4♠ rather than this being ace asking in hearts. We had this last night, 1♥ 1NT! 2♣!(strong) 2♥ (weak) and you need your kickback agreements. Just one thing you need to agree is how to handle a GF spade responder. We play 1♥ 2♠ as a sort of Jacoby 2NT, so we start 1NT and rebid 2♠ with 6 spades GF, or just make a forcing bid otherwise with 5. The less than GF 6 card spade suit starts 1♠ then rebids 2♠. This makes it obvious : the initial bid said no "more than 4 cards", so rebidding spades unexpectedly shows the weak 2 type of hand. You could do it the other way round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 We are moving away from the OP now somewhat but another option here is to play a 1♠ response to 1NT as the Forcing NT with a 1NT response being a GF with spades, together with 1♥ - 1♠; 1NT Gazilli-style, diamonds or balanced and 1♥ - 1♠; 2♦ showing spades (Flannery hand). A further option is to play the 1♠ response to cover all invitational or better hands without 4 hearts and for the 1NT response to be weak with spades and the 2m response weak and natural. And then there is the option of opening 5♥(332) hands that do not qualify for a 1NT opening with 1♣. This removes the balanced hand type from the 1♥ rebids. Some of these possibilities can be combined. Incidentally fromage, if an opponent alerted and described 1♥ - 1♠ as 4 or fewer spades, it would be at all obvious to me that a subsequent 2♠ bid shows 6+ spades! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I must admit I do alert 1♠ as "usually 0-4 spades", but maybe I should be more precise and say "anything but 5 spades"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 How about "6-12 with 0-4 spades or 6+ spades and 5-9" or whichever criteria you actually use. Basically, the opponents are allowed to know everything that you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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