Phil Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 IMP pairs [hv=pc=n&s=saqt9hj82da72ck52&n=sj832h63dkjt9ca43&d=e&v=n&b=14&a=1hdp2s3c3sppp]266|200[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwar0123 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Well, north certainly didn't. South maybe can go to game knowing the values will be well placed with rho, but that flat I can't really blame him for not going. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Well, north certainly didn't. South maybe can go to game knowing the values will be well placed with rho, but that flat I can't really blame him for not going. ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 The heart holding is bad, but everything else is good, I would just bid game with the south hand. I don't even think 3S is a game try, he is just showing a hand that has 4 spades and a minimum, maybe 3H should be a game try since south could double with hands that don't have a primary spade fit? Even then north would not bid game though, but I think 3H would be a reasonable bid instead of 4S, I think 3S is nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 I guess worth noting that I probably make t/o Xs more than most people and bid 2S less than most people so maybe my perspective is skewed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I don't think anyone underbid. It's a balanced 14 and a balanced 9, south would hate his heart holding, north would hate his trumps... I just don't see game normally being reached. I can see the logic of 3♥ as a game try, but I would not be confident in my partner reading it that way since it intuitively sounds very strong to double and cue bid, so I wouldn't blame south for not risking it. But if I knew that's how I was playing it then I would do it (and still miss game). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Many years ago, I ran a bunch of generated deals with 14 behind an opening hand with about 8 for advancer. I recommend doing this. You will bid games at imps much more often. Notice impact of tenaces and kings in the 14 count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 As South VUL at IMPs, would you take a shot at a spade game if you knew: --Pard has 9 or 10 with spade support,--The outstanding strength is bunched up on your right, and--Pard is short in hearts, but Righty has length there? (This one is important) If you would, raise your hand. There is a way to know all those things legally, but nobody will like what they would have to do to find it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Would the bidding be any different if the hands were: IMP pairs [hv=pc=n&s=saqt9hj82da72ck52&n=sj832h963dkjtca43&d=e&v=n&b=14&a=1hdp2s3c4sppp]266|200[/hv] ATB for overbidding to a hopeless 4♠ The fact that West did not raise hearts at these colors does not argue that it is North, who will be short in hearts Rainer Herrmann 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossoneri Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I would probably miss it the same way as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I would play 3 ♠ in both examples- in Rainers with about a trick less then in Phils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I would bid 1S with Rainer's example, not 2S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 My view about Jxx in opener's suit is this: It makes your hand less suitable for a takeout double, so you need extra values to do that. The actual South hand is a minimum takeout double for me. But the reason Jxx is bad is that it reduces the likelihood you have a fit. Once a fit has been discovered this no longer matters. So, after the 2♠ bid, South needs to re-evaluate, realize they now have some values to spare, and bid accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Would the bidding be any different if the hands were: IMP pairs [hv=pc=n&s=saqt9hj82da72ck52&n=sj832h963dkjtca43&d=e&v=n&b=14&a=1hdp2s3c4sppp]266|200[/hv] ATB for overbidding to a hopeless 4♠ The fact that West did not raise hearts at these colors does not argue that it is North, who will be short in hearts Rainer Herrmann I think N has an auto 1♠ bid in your example, i admit even with the original hand i would be tempted to bid 1♠ but end up bidding 2♠ KJT9 side suit which you know pd has at least 3 of them changes a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I mean if you want an example just go KJxxx xx Jxx Axx or something. Part of what made these hands so good is none of partner's hand was the king of spades which would have been worth 0 tricks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I mean if you want an example just go KJxxx xx Jxx Axx or something. Part of what made these hands so good is none of partner's hand was the king of spades which would have been worth 0 tricks. Fyi, i would not be able to bid that game in OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 no. there's some pretty serious resulting going on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 no. there's some pretty serious resulting going on here. Resulting ? In BBF ??? No way !!! :P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 now for the minority report I think N underbid . The 2s bid was very reasonable (conservative bid) since you might easily be playing a 43 fit. This fact alone makes the bid of 2s have a much wider range than normal. 3s makes no sense here except as an invitational bid. Asking p to bid game if they are near the top of their expanded 2s bid. With any minimumovercall S will just pass and leave further competitive bidding to N. It is important for us to have x available as extra values with no 4 cardspade support. The availability of 3h here should have some use for usand it may be best to use it to show exta values long clubs and aninabililty/desire to bid 3n. When S bids 3s N has to reevaluate. Their xx in hearts is a decent plusthe KJTx in dia is probably better than it looks because of the bidding.The spades are poor but there is little/nothing in my hand that has gottenworse because of the bidding and we will probably be able to play thehand close to double dummy. All of these factors add up to acceptinga game invite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I like the auction for the reasons Rainer made, even though his example hand is crackers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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