Hanoi5 Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 teams, all red: ♠AKQx♥8xx♦K♣AKQT9 1♥-2♣2♦-??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Funny. If only there were such a thing as a Bluhmer raise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flem72 Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 teams, all red: ♠AKQx♥8xx♦K♣AKQT9 1♥-2♣2♦-??? We in a hurry? 2S to scope the rebid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 This depends probably on methods. Using cue heavy like I prefer, the heart honor problem will emerge soon, so not a problem setting hearts. Responder is strong enough to take some control later if needed, possibly heading toward 6C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 2h, slam try in h. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 If the general style were specified as 2/1, we can easily bid a mere 2H to establish trump and next find out about the AKQ of hearts/ Ace of diamonds. The 2H rebid would not show a slam try at that point, but who cares? We are just Wooding, anyway. If SAYC, 2H would only show two hearts and 10-11 pts or so and we could play it right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 In 2/1, 2H. No, this is not a slam try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 2♥. Eventually I am going to keycard in hearts, this bid paves the way for my plan to unfold, & lets partner pattern out also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 2♥ is wrong, it is the worse strain I can see to play, it will solve you the ♥AKQ problem, but you won't be able to decide wich strain to play next. I would bid the hand like if I had 2 hearts. I would try 2♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 2♥. What am I missing? I have three hearts and we can't have a spade fit. I don't have to play in hearts at the end. If I bid 2♠ now I may never get to bid keycard for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 2♥. What am I missing? I have three hearts and we can't have a spade fit. I don't have to play in hearts at the end. If I bid 2♠ now I may never get to bid keycard for anything.You're missing that he hasn't specified 2/1 do you really want to play there ? Even if you are playing 2/1 (see the hand below) it's not clear you want to be in hearts. What do you think the reply to 2♠ will be ? If it's 3♣, clubs will often play much better than hearts (x, Axxxx, AQxx, Jxx for example), if it's 3♦ I can bid 3♥, if it's 3♥ I'll keycard 4♠, you know partner isn't bidding no trumps unless he's 4540 given the spade honours you hold and this is a once in a blue moon scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) You're missing that he hasn't specified 2/1 do you really want to play there ? Even if you are playing 2/1 (see the hand below) it's not clear you want to be in hearts. What do you think the reply to 2♠ will be ? If it's 3♣, clubs will often play much better than hearts (x, Axxxx, AQxx, Jxx for example), if it's 3♦ I can bid 3♥, if it's 3♥ I'll keycard 4♠, you know partner isn't bidding no trumps unless he's 4540 given the spade honours you hold and this is a once in a blue moon scenario.What I was missing was the aversion of many 2/1 players to ever support a 2♣ response with 3 of them, either directly or after their major has been delay-supported. I revise my WTP 2♥ if playing 2/1 to WTP 2♥ if playing 2/1 with my regular pard. Cyber's 1-5-4-3 pattern will get us to 5H, 6H, 7H, 6C, or 7C depending on what keycards are shown, after: 1H-2C2D-2H3C Edited October 7, 2012 by aguahombre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I'm bidding 2♠ giving pard 1 last chance to support clubs. Something like x, AKxxx, Axxx, xxx is a good grand and if you add the Q♦ (or JT) pard would surely have bid them instead of raising me the first time. If I don't catch clubs, partner will pattern out over this in our style and I can bid 3♥ to set them before rkc but if that's pards bid, rkc is for hearts (as discussed) anyway. If pards next bid is 2nt it could be xx, akxxx ,axxx, jx for another good grand that I just can't bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 1) For those NOT rebidding 2H, don't you risk a RKC-ask NOT for ♥ as the agreed suit... and then how are you supposed to find out about the ♥-Q ? [ I'm assuming 2D was 2/1 GF ] . 2) One interesting note about the following sequence:1H - 2C!2D - 2H3C 3C normally would be a cue-bid and NOT a double-fit, but in this case, since you have the top 3 honors in ♣, it would have to show ♣ support and most likely 4 cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 1) For those NOT rebidding 2H, don't you risk a RKC-ask NOT for ♥ as the agreed suit... and then how are you supposed to find out about the ♥-Q ? [ I'm assuming 2D was 2/1 GF ] . I don't understand this, what do you think partner is likely to bid over 2♠ given that he pretty much definitely doesn't have a spade stop ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 2) One interesting note about the following sequence:1H - 2C!2D - 2H3C 3C normally would be a cue-bid and NOT a double-fit, but in this case, since you have the top 3 honors in ♣, it would have to show ♣ support and most likely 4 cards.Good Grief. Not even supporting the poor neglected club suit directly even with 4 of them. One of the things I like about the extra room provided by 2/1 is the pattern bidding available. Strain(s) first, then level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 1) For those NOT rebidding 2H, don't you risk a RKC-ask NOT for ♥ as the agreed suit... and then how are you supposed to find out about the ♥-Q ?What about the ♦Q? I may not need even the ♥K!Opener is not that likely to hold all 3 top honors in hearts anyway and even than a grand in hearts might require that hearts break.Treating this heart support as a doubleton is sensible If this is a 2/1 sequence I would bid 2NT, because I am interested in partner's next rebid.I will not want to stop below 6NT anyway. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Good Grief. Not even supporting the poor neglected club suit directly even with 4 of them. One of the things I like about the extra room provided by 2/1 is the pattern bidding available. Strain(s) first, then level.I agree that that sequence should not exist.... I took it from your post # 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 I agree that that sequence should not exist.... I took it from your post # 12You mean the one where I mentioned 3-card club support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 I don't understand this, what do you think partner is likely to bid over 2♠ given that he pretty much definitely doesn't have a spade stop ? We don't bid for stops in an auction like this, it asks pard about the rest of their pattern and responder has plenty more room to plutz into the right game. Over 2♠ 2nt = 2-5-4-2 3♣ = 1-5-4-3 (bullseye) 3♦ = ?-5-5-? 3♥ = ?-6-4-? 3♠ = 3-5-4-1 None of those ? have 3 clubs. We find this to be much more usefull info more often than just asking for a stopper when we know we have game somewhere. I can arrange to kc on ♥ with all of the above with the exception of 3♠. I'll give up on the grand over that one but blast 6nt which should make if pards hearts are good enough and might even be the only slam if there are 2 losers in hearts on a bad split. Come to think of it, I should probably bid 4♣ first in case pard has the unexpected 4-5-4-0. I might still get to kc on hearts over this too. Over the bullseye 3♣ bid I'll just kc on them, get 2 and bid 7♣. Gotta be 13 there when I can count 12 opposite an 8 count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 We don't bid for stops in an auction like this, it asks pard about the rest of their pattern and responder has plenty more room to plutz into the right game. Over 2♠ 2nt = 2-5-4-2 3♣ = 1-5-4-3 (bullseye) 3♦ = ?-5-5-? 3♥ = ?-6-4-? 3♠ = 3-5-4-1 None of those ? have 3 clubs. We find this to be much more usefull info more often than just asking for a stopper when we know we have game somewhere. ...Except that you can receive exactly the same information by bidding 2NT, while 2♠ can be asking for a stopper or rather more likely an attempt to right-side notrump. It is not like you have to make a choice between 2 possible meanings of a bid. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 What about the ♦Q? I may not need even the ♥K!Opener is not that likely to hold all 3 top honors in hearts anyway and even than a grand in hearts might require that hearts break.Treating this heart support as a doubleton is sensible If this is a 2/1 sequence I would bid 2NT, because I am interested in partner's next rebid.I will not want to stop below 6NT anyway. Rainer Herrmann Posts like this make me laugh. So partner with a xx AKQJx Jxxx xx bids 3NT over your 2NT bid. Now what? 6NT is a great contract, isn't it? Far better is to bid 2H as a waiting bid. Now you are lower and can find out more information about the H suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Posts like this make me laugh. So partner with a xx AKQJx Jxxx xx bids 3NT over your 2NT bid. Now what? 6NT is a great contract, isn't it? Far better is to bid 2H as a waiting bid. Now you are lower and can find out more information about the H suit.If I were you I would make the hand Jx AKQJx Jxxx Jx, so that you have at least a clear opening bid. With your hand 1♥ would not be my choice, and if it were, it would not occur to me to bid 2 ♦ in a strong constructive sequence, since I have no intention to suggest diamonds as a strain. The laughing stock is you Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 OK, Hanoi .... we're ready for partner's hand ( or at least I am ) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 You're missing that he hasn't specified 2/1 do you really want to play there ? Even if you are playing 2/1 (see the hand below) it's not clear you want to be in hearts. What do you think the reply to 2♠ will be ? If it's 3♣, clubs will often play much better than hearts (x, Axxxx, AQxx, Jxx for example), if it's 3♦ I can bid 3♥, if it's 3♥ I'll keycard 4♠, you know partner isn't bidding no trumps unless he's 4540 given the spade honours you hold and this is a once in a blue moon scenario.Of course I'm going to assume it's 2/1 game forcing. If I bid 2♥, then bid keycard, and we are off one + the queen, I will bid 6NT anyway. I can't imagine it being worse than a club break, and opposite hands like your example there are 12 top tricks. I don't have to play in hearts after bidding 2♥. I know you are trying to make me miss 7♣ and it is possible. But if you bid 2♠ and partner bids 3♣ will you be able to tell later whether he has that hand, or x AQxxx AJxx xxx? If I bid 2♠ and partner bids 2NT or 3♦ and I bid 3♥, that does not promise three card support (in fact I would tend to have two after bidding 2♠). If partner next bids 3NT (very likely) what am I supposed to bid to assure I will be able to then bid keycard for anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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