fromageGB Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I play 1430 Kickback too. What is more, you are wrong about it not being advantageous. Say hearts agreed and we bid 4♠ asking for key cards. The response is 4NT showing 1 or 4. Now 5♣ is the trump queen ask but we also have 5♦ available as the king ask...Good point if the additional room helps. I suppose if partner has no kings he bids 5♥, so you can afford to ask for kings missing an ace and a king, which you wouldn't normally (other things being equal). Is this what you would do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yes, bidding the trump suit at the lowest level shows no side kings after a king ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 double-post, sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Good point if the additional room helps. I suppose if partner has no kings he bids 5♥, so you can afford to ask for kings missing an ace and a king, which you wouldn't normally (other things being equal). Is this what you would do?Interesting point, but I don't think so.Once you ask for Kings, regardless of level, it guarantees ALL key cards AND the trump Q ( or no concern about her highness due to extra trump length ). That said, I don't see a downside to asking for a missing a King since no answer should be at the 7-level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Some play, especially at MPs, that the king ask could be off a KC, as 6NT scores better than 6M. Having said that, why, if you play that the king ask guarantees 5+Q, would you not use the 7 level? Unless you're playing a full relay system, responder to KC could have a side solid 6+card suit, which is easily going to be better than whatever K we're missing for making 13 tricks. 7m could be "choice of grands", too, depending on how you want to play it. I always tell people that when they go for kings, they let partner back in to the judgement - it's not a pure captaincy auction any more. That seems to be pretty standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I always tell people that when they go for kings, they let partner back in to the judgement - it's not a pure captaincy auction any more. That seems to be pretty standard.This is true but in this particular case there is an "out". For example you could play ... - 4♠ - 4NT - 5♦===================5♥ = no side king5♠ = ♠K5NT = ♦K, no ♠K6♣ = ♣K only6♦ = no king but something extra(1)6♥ = no king but something extra(2)6♠ = "I want to bid grand, how are the key cards?"6NT = all 3 side kings The 6♠ response means you could still settle in 6NT. This area, looking for side cards with a key card missing, is one I plan to look at in more detail some day since it is not at all uncommon that it causes a problem, especially at MP scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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