nathan2008 Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 I just tested the beta version... I have one suggestion. Please put the entry fee of the game in their names. I am used to seeing $5 robot reward, $1 robot reward best hands, $0.25 robot duplicate etc. In the beta version, i don't see these in their names:( . What is more, if i look for the games which are running, i must click on "more details" to know this game is $1 or $5 .... I find it inconvenient. Others seem so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 We took the prices out of the names because it's in the Register button, and it would be redundant to have it in both places. We tried to reduce the length of the names, for the sake of players whose screens aren't so wide. You can enter $1 or $5 in the Search box, and it will find them in the running/completed games even though it doesn't appear on the screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM75 Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 We took the prices out of the names because it's in the Register button, and it would be redundant to have it in both places. We tried to reduce the length of the names, for the sake of players whose screens aren't so wide. You can enter $1 or $5 in the Search box, and it will find them in the running/completed games even though it doesn't appear on the screen.When you took out the price colum (which is too wide because of how it is filled) you lost the ability to sort the column. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 When you took out the price colum (which is too wide because of how it is filled) you lost the ability to sort the column.Why do you need to sort the column? Whenever I used the sorting feature, it was so I could find tournaments of a particular type. Now we have the search feature that does this better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM75 Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Why do you need to sort the column? Whenever I used the sorting feature, it was so I could find tournaments of a particular type. Now we have the search feature that does this better. Sorting the column will put the cheapest tournaments at the top. Sorting again will put the most expensive at the top. So if you want to find a 0.25 or 5.0 tourney it is easy. All will be grouped together. For the same reason, take the tournament number out of the name and make it a column of its own. So when a TD is looking for subs for tourney nnnn or tourney nnnn is starting soon, you can find it quickly if you are interested. Today, sometimes you can't even see the tournament number or maybe only a digit or two of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted October 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 The beta client has been updated to reflect some changes made after feedback. Use the same URL linked above, but maybe clear cache to see the new client. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Significantly improved tournament list, but... I can move any of the vertical lines separating fields to adjust the field widths, except that I cannot move the line separating "Entries" and "Register", so I cannot make the Entries column any smaller; the start of the Register column seems to be at a fixed place. Also because of this, when I make any other column smaller, the Entries column get bigger, which is not at all helpful since that coumn does not need more than 3 characters. The Register column also extends beyond the right edge of my main display box (just like the "Refresh" button does). To help yo analyze, since these things are all variable: my computer screen is 12" wide; the left-most 1.5" is the rotating ads; the right-most 3.25" is "Who's Online" and the center main information part is the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Significantly improved tournament list, but... I can move any of the vertical lines separating fields to adjust the field widths, except that I cannot move the line separating "Entries" and "Register", so I cannot make the Entries column any smaller; the start of the Register column seems to be at a fixed place. Also because of this, when I make any other column smaller, the Entries column get bigger, which is not at all helpful since that coumn does not need more than 3 characters. The Register column also extends beyond the right edge of my main display box (just like the "Refresh" button does). To help yo analyze, since these things are all variable: my computer screen is 12" wide; the left-most 1.5" is the rotating ads; the right-most 3.25" is "Who's Online" and the center main information part is the rest.Can you e-mail me a screenshot please? fred@bridgebase.com Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Sorting the column will put the cheapest tournaments at the top. Sorting again will put the most expensive at the top. So if you want to find a 0.25 or 5.0 tourney it is easy. All will be grouped together.Doesn't typing the price into the Search box serve that purpose even better?For the same reason, take the tournament number out of the name and make it a column of its own. So when a TD is looking for subs for tourney nnnn or tourney nnnn is starting soon, you can find it quickly if you are interested.Again, doesn't the Search box make that easy? It seems to me that the search field solves many problems, but you're fixated on how to solve them using the grid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM75 Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Doesn't typing the price into the Search box serve that purpose even better? Again, doesn't the Search box make that easy? It seems to me that the search field solves many problems, but you're fixated on how to solve them using the grid. LOL :) I guess you did not try the Search box for that item. It fails rather badly. In the current version (I just tried the new improved beta) the register and price are serving double duty in one place. That is probably just a bad idea. <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Sent screen shots to Fred. BTW. Searching text does work pretty nicely for some things - such as find a tournament #. Going back to the grid was also right (IMO). Reducing its width also worked well. Suggested the idea of filters a'la Data, Filter in Excel. That way the selection is specific to the data type (column) that you care about. Example - Individual/Pair. Tourney price (only about 5 values) you might pick only one, or maybe 2 or 3. Expand/Collapse Hosts (that column and at least one other does not sort properly now) Some times it is best to take a well known and widely used user interface and adapt it rather than try something that is just surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 In the current version (I just tried the new improved beta) the register and price are serving double duty in one place. That is probably just a bad idea. I don't see why. As long as it's fixed so that it sorts properly, this seems to conserve space and provide useful info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 LOL :) I guess you did not try the Search box for that item. It fails rather badly.I assume "that item" refers to price. I tried it before posting, and thought it worked fine.Some times it is best to take a well known and widely used user interface and adapt it rather than try something that is just surprising.Our thinking was that non-technical people would find a simple list more intuitive than a spreadsheet/grid. E.g. I've told my mother a zillion times that she can click on the column headings in her email program to sort, but she doesn't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM75 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I assume "that item" refers to price. I tried it before posting, and thought it worked fine. Our thinking was that non-technical people would find a simple list more intuitive than a spreadsheet/grid. E.g. I've told my mother a zillion times that she can click on the column headings in her email program to sort, but she doesn't get it. Searching for 0.25 or $0.5, just plain eliminated some of the things I was looking for. There are only 5 prices, to the best of my knowledge. Text search is a weak method, especially since it is not limited to the price column. When you test, you must try to make things fail. If you don't test that way, you will end up fighting embarrassing fires, because you only tried the things that obviously would work. Anyway, I don't want to harp on it. I sent Fred screen shots of some of the search problems. The domain being searched here is very limited. Using text search can sometimes work well and sometimes just badly. The idea is to figure out, in this limited domain, what the natural and likely questions will be. Those should be answered via carefully constructed, purposeful queries.One of the problems with getting people to click on the top of the column headings, is that it is totally unintuitive. There is nothing about the column head that suggests clicking on it. So unless you have used it in windows/mac directory listings, or excel or have seen it before, nothing is likely to get you to click on it. (Of course, you could write "click column headings to sort" somewhere on the screen :). The people that already guessed it would laugh. But the ones who didn't. It might kind of knock their socks off. Does the "Help" mention that you can do it. Not that most people feel the need to look at help. If you ever escape from Flash, maybe it gets easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheminfo Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 The Bridge movies are an excellent idea, as they allow you to see how good players think! However it is not possible to launch them from an Ipad !! Adobe Flash Player is needed! Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Searching for 0.25 or $0.5, just plain eliminated some of the things I was looking for. There are only 5 prices, to the best of my knowledge. Text search is a weak method, especially since it is not limited to the price column.I tried 0.25, it seemed to work perfectly. $0.5 won't work because we don't have any tourneys at that price. Did you mean $5.00? $5 works, but it doesn't work with ".00" because we don't bother to display the cents. So your point is that text search is weak because you have to know the exact way we chose to write the price. But why would you type ".00" when "$5" has already narrowed down the display?When you test, you must try to make things fail. If you don't test that way, you will end up fighting embarrassing fires, because you only tried the things that obviously would work. Anyway, I don't want to harp on it. I sent Fred screen shots of some of the search problems. The domain being searched here is very limited. Using text search can sometimes work well and sometimes just badly. The idea is to figure out, in this limited domain, what the natural and likely questions will be. Those should be answered via carefully constructed, purposeful queries.The nice thing about text search is that it's very flexible -- we don't have to predict all the things you might want to search for and put them into menus, sortable fields, or whatnot. However, I agree with you that these are not mutually exclusive. When we were redesigning this, I suggested a combobox, but others thought it wouldn't work well because there are so many common search items. Other things we've considered are remembering recent searches, or a Favorites list.One of the problems with getting people to click on the top of the column headings, is that it is totally unintuitive. There is nothing about the column head that suggests clicking on it. So unless you have used it in windows/mac directory listings, or excel or have seen it before, nothing is likely to get you to click on it. (Of course, you could write "click column headings to sort" somewhere on the screen :). The people that already guessed it would laugh. But the ones who didn't. It might kind of knock their socks off. Does the "Help" mention that you can do it. Not that most people feel the need to look at help.No. However, we're going to have to update that help page to match these changes (it refers to the "More" and "Join" buttons, which are gone), so this would be a good opportunity to add it.If you ever escape from Flash, maybe it gets easier.I don't think so. The common types of controls in HTML5 are essentially the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeppeA Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Let me say, pls, that i hate new settings for robot tourneys; I never played with dummy's cards close to me and mines as declarer far and in front of me. This is terribly confounding me: i must continuously remember who is the dummy and who's the declarer and which cards are hidden and which ones are shown to the opponents :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarletv Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Over all I still do not like the browser version. The download version is more user friendly for my eyes and it is easier to read the cards and I am not getting tired as fast as with the new version. Any improvement in this topic would be the critical improvement making the new version more attractive for me. I am acutally using both versions. The browswer version for directing and organizing the friends but very often changing to the download version for pure playing. Concerning the last changes here my comments 1) ISSUE?when trying to create a movie I could not upload a lin file. When I tried to call the help I got an error that this side of BBO is no longer existing ...? 2) The list of tourneys is still incomplete (restricted for 2 hours) 3) I like the context information shown when the mouse is pointing to a line. It would be great to have a similar functionality for the players profiles and the kibs too. 4) Is it possible to include into this context information if there is a restriction in the tourney? It is annoying when I have to click into 10 or more tourneys to find out which one I will be allowed to play. 5) ISSUE !!When playing a tourney the layout of the table has changed. The box on the left upper corner is so big that some cards of the dummy are "covered". Cards in this area cannot be selected. Maybe this has something to do with the Translation? In German there is "Matchpunkte (Paar)" which might be too long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Let me say, pls, that i hate new settings for robot tourneys; I never played with dummy's cards close to me and mines as declarer far and in front of me. This is terribly confounding me: i must continuously remember who is the dummy and who's the declarer and which cards are hidden and which ones are shown to the opponents :-(It seems like we can't win. When we first came out with "human declares" people complained that they had trouble matching up the auction with the players because everything flipped around. We made this change to straighten that out. Both ways have some confusing aspects, and it's not clear that there's concensus on which is less bad. Maybe we'll eventually give in and make it a user option, although we generally try to minimizd the number of options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeppeA Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 It seems like we can't win. When we first came out with "human declares" people complained that they had trouble matching up the auction with the players because everything flipped around. We made this change to straighten that out. Both ways have some confusing aspects, and it's not clear that there's concensus on which is less bad. Maybe we'll eventually give in and make it a user option, although we generally try to minimizd the number of options. Of course i'd be very glad if i could have a personal option to set this matter; i think it is such a personal question, that it could be solved only this way. Thanks to the wonderful team for caring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mila6452 Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 I think the Movie Maker is so wonderful tool that one can open a topic for it to receive feedback and suggestions for this tool.I have a big request:- Could you connect the "Help" button to a real content, or remove the help button. The actual situation is very ugly and annoying: we get an error message for each HELP button. :( :( This is not professional! small question:- how to use the "Modify deal" ? Seems to me it always modifies the whole deal and go back to the first card, but not in the reality. So my frames and actions are broken. I thought I can modify some cards only and continue the frames with this modification. This function is missing! Is there a place where we can report error(s) about Movie Maker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 I think the Movie Maker is so wonderful tool that one can open a topic for it to receive feedback and suggestions for this tool.I have a big request:- Could you connect the "Help" button to a real content, or remove the help button. The actual situation is very ugly and annoying: we get an error message for each HELP button. :( :( This is not professional! small question:- how to use the "Modify deal" ? Seems to me it always modifies the whole deal and go back to the first card, but not in the reality. So my frames and actions are broken. I thought I can modify some cards only and continue the frames with this modification. This function is missing! Is there a place where we can report error(s) about Movie Maker? The Help files were fixed recently. Can you clear cache and try again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mila6452 Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 The Help files were fixed recently. Can you clear cache and try again?Thanks Eva, the help works now for me. I have read the help of the "modify deal". Seems the function does not work on the way you designed.Could you check and fix the error, please? In addition: I guess that you would store only the changes made on the deal not the whole deal! (or this is the source of the error?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Thanks Eva, the help works now for me. I have read the help of the "modify deal". Seems the function does not work on the way you designed.Could you check and fix the error, please? In addition: I guess that you would store only the changes made on the deal not the whole deal! (or this is the source of the error?) Send me a private message please and tell me the number of the doc you are working on. I suspect you are using the effects in the wrong order, but maybe there is a bug somewhere - the software is still pretty much experimental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Is there a place where we can report error(s) about Movie Maker?You can report bugs in the BBO Support Forum. If volume warrants, maybe we'll spawn a dedicated forum for it sometime in the future, but I suspect that won't be necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patroclo Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I have tried to make a movie showing a two player hand (east and west). But it is impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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