Your call over 4S?

[jallerton]

[hv=pc=n&w=st8762hj2dakq5ca7&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1cp1s4h4sp]133|200[/hv]

 

What do you do now? In case it's relevant, you are playing weak NT. Partner's 1♣ opening shows at least 4 clubs unless he is 4=3=3=3 with 15-19HCP.

 

IMPs scoring.

[lamford]

It looks like partner has good spades, as there is not much else for him to have. I presume AKQx xx xx KQJxx and AKQx x xxx KQJxx would both bid 4S. Pard will hopefully bid 6 on the latter.

[MrAce]

It looks like partner has good spades, as there is not much else for him to have. I presume AKQx xx xx KQJxx and AKQx x xxx KQJxx would both bid 4S. Pard will hopefully bid 6 on the latter.

 

Wouldnt you bid 4♠ with

 

AQxx x Jx KQJxxx

AJTx

KQJx

AKJx ?

 

We need specificially AKQx ♠ + singleton ♥ to make slam. One may argue that pd always will know when to bid slam and when to stay out of it when we make a try now, but unfortunately pds decisions which maybe correct for this hand can be totally off if we slightly change our hand. So i am not very optimistic about pds decisions and i cant blame him to be honest.

 

I would probably pass to see that i screwed up again when spades are behaving even after this auction. :P

[bigbenvic]

4nt doesn't help when pards responds showing 2 + Q trumps, 5s doesn't help if it's a how good are your trumps move.

 

If 5c is a cue that's doable but pards could misunderstand it. Also will he cue 5♥ with a stiff?

 

is 5♦ a cue showing both minor aces? If not then he might not get excited with a stiff H and no A♣

 

That leaves pass, 5♥ and 6♠ as viable options.

 

I choose 5♥ hoping to focus on this suit. Can you hold it to 1 loser pards?

[Codo]

I have two aces more then I showed so far, I will try for the slam. As I bid controls up the line, I just bid 5♣ and 5 ♠ over a possible 5♦ from partner.

[phil_20686]

Five spades here just commands partner to bid slam with a heart control. I am happy to assume that we can play trumps for one loser. If you bid 5c or five diamonds partner will respond 5M and you still won't have solved your problem. I think it's more likely we are off two hearts than off a trump honour.

 

[gordontd]

Five spades here just commands partner to bid slam with a heart control. I am happy to assume that we can play trumps for one loser. If you bid 5c or five diamonds partner will respond 5M and you still won't have solved your problem. I think it's more likely we are off two hearts than off a trump honour.

I agree that, if you're going to make move, 5S seems best, but the heart control you're hoping for is most often going to be a singleton, and if you're playing the trumps for one loser that sounds like one off to me.

[han]

This weekend I bid 4S on this auction with AJxx x xx AJ109xx. Admittedly the colors were different.

[phil_20686]

1348563755[/url]' post='669232']

I agree that, if you're going to make move, 5S seems best, but the heart control you're hoping for is most often going to be a singleton, and if you're playing the trumps for one loser that sounds like one off to me.

 

Yes. I think it's between five spades and pass. I voted foe five spades, but I have no strong feelings really. Five spades could already be too high. If partner has xx hearts he will have a good hand. If he has singleton or void heart he can stretch. On a good day he will have akxx - xxx kjxxxx and that will be enough.

[Fluffy]

partner doesn't need a monster to bid 4♠ over 4♥. I would pass

[gnasher]

This weekend I bid 4S on this auction with AJxx x xx AJ109xx. Admittedly the colors were different.

I'd bid 4♠ at any vulnerability with that.

[JLOGIC]

I'd pass, making 7 imo.

[sathyab]

If you are playing against a much better team bidding 6♠ directly would be a lot easier to defend in the 3rd or 4th quarter than the first half where you have to pretend that you are playing 'normal' Bridge :D

[nige1]

IMO 6♠ = 10, Pass = 9, 5♦ = 8, 5♥ = 7, 5♠ = 6

Partner may judge 5♠ to be a blame-transfer.. 5♠ may express worry about ♥ control -- or concern about trump quality. The problem is that you need both

[JLOGIC]

IMO 6♠ = 10, Pass = 9, 5♥ = 8, 5♠ = 7

Partner may judge 5♠ to be a blame-transfer.. 5♠ may express worry about ♥ control -- or concern about trump quality. The problem is that you need both

 

W...T....F????????

[JLOGIC]

I mean sorry but that was amazing logic. We have both bad trumps and no heart control, ergo we should bid 6 rather than 5 because partner won't know which it asks for....

 

I men even in a land where partner is not going to be sure which it asks for, if he somehow passes 5S that has to be right (he will have either no heart control thinking we are asking for a heart control, or bad trumps thinking we are asking about trumps, if he passes).

[gszes]

rho had a chance to make our slam searching life veryyyyy difficult with a 5h bid

somthing they might do even with a stiff heart if they have little/no defense. I fear

rho is more interested in defending than sacrificing and it requires almost too perfect

a hand from p to make 6s. IMO we may be fixed but I think its safer to just pass

and hope bad breaks happen to keep us from making too many.

[nige1]

I mean sorry but that was amazing logic. We have both bad trumps and no heart control, ergo we should bid 6 rather than 5 because partner won't know which it asks for....

I mean even in a land where partner is not going to be sure which it asks for, if he somehow passes 5S that has to be right (he will have either no heart control thinking we are asking for a heart control, or bad trumps thinking we are asking about trumps, if he passes).

I'll try to clarify my "amazing logic", I think I understand the argument for 5♠:

• If partner has both good ♠ and a ♥ control, he'll bid 6♠.
• Furthermore, if partner lacks both then he certainly won't bid 6♠.
• Finally, 5♠ is the majority BBO choice. Hence, when 6♠ is defeated, you can blame partner for misinterpreting your bid.

Unfortunately, IMO, partner is likely to have one or the other and he may deem that sufficient to bid 6♠. Even if 5♠ succeeds in shifting the blame, my foreboding is that it directs opponents to lead a ♥ and inhibits them from leading a trump.. Whereas, without your 5♠ bid, it's conceivable that they might lead something favorable. :)

[PhilKing]

I'll try to clarify my "amazing logic", I think I understand the argument for 5♠:

• If partner has both good ♠ and a ♥ control, he'll bid 6♠.
• Furthermore, if partner lacks both then he certainly won't bid 6♠.
• Finally, 5♠ is the majority BBO choice. Hence, when 6♠ is defeated, you can blame partner for misinterpreting your bid.

Unfortunately, IMO, partner is likely to have one of the other and he may deem that sufficient to bid 6♠. Even if 5♠ succeeds in shifting the blame, my foreboding is that it directs opponents to lead a ♥ and inhibits them from leading a trump.. Whereas, without your 5♠ bid, it's conceivable that they might lead something favorable. :)

 

So why not bid 5♦ and over 5♥ bid 5♠? Then partner will know he needs heart control and a good hand?

 

6♠ is out to lunch and gains exactly never imo. Even 5♦ is pushing it.

 

If you bid six, they are leading a trump approximately never.

[nige1]

So why not bid 5♦ and over 5♥ bid 5♠? Then partner will know he needs heart control and a good hand? 6♠ is out to lunch and gains exactly never imo. Even 5♦ is pushing it. If you bid six, they are leading a trump approximately never.

6♠ and pass are the bread-and-butter bids but I like 5♦ better than 5♠ so I've now given it marks :)

[jallerton]

I am pleased to see that there is no consensus here.

 

I held this hand at the table. In slam auctions I like to construct potential hands for partner, so it was annoying when I came up with hands where we were making 13 tricks and other hands where even 5♠ was not safe.

 

If you do move, there is also the question as to what partner will expect 5♣/5♦/5♠ to mean here.

 

Eventually I decided to bid 5♣. Partner, holding ♠KJ53 ♥A7 ♦7 ♣KQJ843, now drove to slam.

 

6♠ is not a great contract on the bidding, but all was well in the end as the 4♥ bidder was 2722 with ♠AQ doubleton.

[cherdano]

I would pass. If you want to bid, I don't understand bidding anything other than 5♠. IMO this is a slam invitation without a heart control (invite rather than command since partner's range is so wide).

 

Of course, if partner has a heart void I will look silly.