Correcting your own takeout double

[dwar0123]

2/1

First time playing with this partner at a club game, partner is adv+.

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&b=5&a=pp1d2cdp2hp2sp]133|100[/hv]

 

My general bridge knowledge would have me believe this showed a 5-4 hand and inv values.

 

My partner felt it showed a very weak single suited spade hand, to weak to bid 2s and not really wanting to preempt at the 3 level.

 

I have to admit his interpretation has a lot of merit, just odd that I have never seen or heard of this before.

 

Is this pretty standard stuff?

[manudude03]

I prefer the partner's treatment myself, though I wouldn't say very weak, more like a non-trashy weak 2 in spades. It doesn't seem to be standard, even if it makes sense as a negative double. Compare this to 1D-(1S)-X-2C-2H, isn't that what we would like to do with AQxxxx in hearts and out?

[CSGibson]

I prefer the partner's treatment myself, though I wouldn't say very weak, more like a non-trashy weak 2 in spades. It doesn't seem to be standard, even if it makes sense as a negative double. Compare this to 1D-(1S)-X-2C-2H, isn't that what we would like to do with AQxxxx in hearts and out?

 

I think you missed that he is a passed hand, having an opportunity to bid a weak 2 originally. I would probably play this as 5 spades and 3-4 diamonds, but too weak to bid 2♠, intuitively, but maybe that's too restrictive.

[dwar0123]

I think you missed that he is a passed hand, having an opportunity to bid a weak 2 originally. I would probably play this as 5 spades and 3-4 diamonds, but too weak to bid 2♠, intuitively, but maybe that's too restrictive.

 

Would you open a first seat weak 2 spade with a 4 card heart suit?

[CSGibson]

Would you open a first seat weak 2 spade with a 4 card heart suit?

 

No, but I also wouldn't be suggesting another strain with a 4 card heart suit - I'd either pass or raise hearts.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

When the minors are bid, some say the Neg-DBL should guarantee BOTH Majors, but how often does that happen ?

 

I think Responder's 2S-after-Neg DBL should be weak and not promise anything in ♥-- and weaker than if it were bid directly .

But what if Opener had jumped to 3H ? Can such a Responder hand tolerate that ?

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The system I like, and I've mentioned it before, is that the Neg-DBL shows ♠ and says nada about ♥ .

[aguahombre]

The answers here are different, depending on whether we are in the group of players who always open a weak two-bid in first seat with 6 of them, regardless of suit quality or dispersement of outside cards.

 

For us, it is still possible to have 6 spades and not a heart suit after this negative double.

[Hanoi5]

You're correcting your negative double, not your take-out double.

[Bbradley62]

My partner felt it showed a very weak single suited spade hand, too weak to bid 2s and not really wanting to preempt at the 3 level.

This was completely standard 25 years ago

[aguahombre]

This was completely standard 25 years ago

and, unless playing negative freebids or random 2S opening bids, it still is standard.

[JLOGIC]

I would bid this way with Qxxxxx Axx xx Jx or something. Guess I am old fashioned, I don't think it implies anything other than a hand too weak to bid 2S to begin with.

[Codo]

If you play this sequence as weak with spades, how do you react after a jump from partner to 3 ♥?

[JLOGIC]

If you play this sequence as weak with spades, how do you react after a jump from partner to 3 ♥?

 

You'd bid 3S?

[Fluffy]

This shows spades with the opposite range of a 2♠ bid directly in your agreements. In standard it is strong directly and weak after double, playing NFB it is the opposite.

[broze]

2♣ overcalling 1♦ - screwing with the opponents' major auctions since the beginning of the game. :)

[Codo]

If you play this sequence as weak with spades, how do you react after a jump from partner to 3 ♥?

 

You'd bid 3S?

 

So the downside is that I face Qxxxxx Axx xx Jx oppsite x,KQxx,AKQxx,xx and partner needs to find a good bid after 3 ♠? (4 ♥ is one, but does he know that I have so good heart support?)

 

Wouldn't it be smarter to change the meaning of double and then spades and a direct 2 ♠ bid? In this case you are a level lower in non fit situations and you at least have the values for game if partner jumps around with a strong opening bid.

[JLOGIC]

If you play this sequence as weak with spades, how do you react after a jump from partner to 3 ♥?

 

 

So the downside is that I face Qxxxxx Axx xx Jx oppsite x,KQxx,AKQxx,xx and partner needs to find a good bid after 3 ♠? (4 ♥ is one, but does he know that I have so good heart support?)

 

Wouldn't it be smarter to change the meaning of double and then spades and a direct 2 ♠ bid? In this case you are a level lower in non fit situations and you at least have the values for game if partner jumps around with a strong opening bid.

 

Negative free bids come with their own problems too. No method will work on every hand. In general, playing either method whenever you are dealt a 2S bid rather than a double, you will come out ahead in those cases.

[gwnn]

Wouldn't it be smarter to change the meaning of double and then spades and a direct 2 ♠ bid? In this case you are a level lower in non fit situations and you at least have the values for game if partner jumps around with a strong opening bid.

The smartest is to use transfers ;) (ok you lose the 2D bid). Or Han et al use double promising one particular major and 2D promising the other major.