Jinksy Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Here's a hand that just provoked a strong disagreement between me and a BBO partner. Both of us thought the call was completely obvious - naturally neither of us agreed which way it was obvious :P Playing Standard American, three weak twos, 0 system discussion. 1st in all vul, IMP scoring. What's your call - and why? How do you rate the alternatives? AJT972K5QJ463 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_20686 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 1♠. Because I have a 1♠ bid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broze Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Yes, 1♠ and I'm afraid it's not close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhchung Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 as a non-expert I will bid 1S 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 I won't be surprised to see a near unanimous result for 1♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 1♠ for me, but close enough that I would not object to 2♠ by partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Goren would open 1♠ (but, of course, a 2♠ bid would have been a strong 2 bid). The only alternative is a weak 2♠ opening, which I could open with a partner who played VERY sound opening bids. Otherwise, an argument can be made that this is a maximum 2♠ opening bid red vs. white in second seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 AJT972K5QJ463 Undoubtedly, the agreement was the standard agreement that a Weak Two shows 5-11 HCP. This always, then, leads to a debate as to what to do with exactly 11 HCP, as with any 6-card holding, you must perforce have enough to open at the one-level by the Rule-of-Twenty analysis (11 plus 6 plus at least 3 = 20). You can actually find some discussions of this issue through Google, by the way. Also, as an aside, I actually had one partner pass because he could not decide! Weird. Deciphering the line would be a function of style. If your general style is old-school, you would probably look at the "Quick Tricks" available. Thus, with AK-A, you clearly have three quicks and should oipen one-level. Similarly, AK-K or AQ-A. With that analysis, this hand is 1 1/2 quicks and should be opened 2♠. If your analysis is "value," you might look to whether the HCP holdings are "dubious," like Qx or Jx. All 11 HCP in this hand are working, so clear 1♠. If your analysis is LTC, the "normal" opening with a six-card suit would be seven losers. Ax-AKxxx-xx-xxx, for example, is 11 HCP with 7 losers. This hand, however, is hard to read. Simply addressing missing cards, you have a 7-loser hand. But, the K-x is dubious. However, calling AJ109 as two losers is also dubious. The Q-J-x is slow and dubious. But, it seems like 7 losers, so 1♠ seems right. I mean, I open 1♠, but I can see reason for another view. Calling this "clear" seems a stretch, even if you agree with my take, as this is CLEARLY NOT a 1♠ opening by Quick Trick anaysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Stule matters: I suspect that most who play std american tend to be more traditional in their bidding than otherwise, and so this might well be a 2♠ call especially vulnerable. I don't think it is demonstrably 'wrong' to open 2♠ or, my choice, 1♠...of course, when you have no agreements, and are playing on BBO, you can't know (until you've seen a few hands bid by partner) what his style is. Even today, a Grannovetter would probably shudder at 1♠..and he's a WC expert. I personally don't like 2♠ but, in my partnerships, partner wouldn't expect more than this for 1♠ then 2♠. My style and I think the style of just about everyone who posts on BBF is 1♠, but (my guess is) a pickup BBO partner who plays std american isn't likely to be a poster here....so your poll is going to reflect a dislike for 2♠ that isn't really representative nor fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Take away S:10, without 3/5 tops, nor 2/top 3, NOW it is OBVIOUS, but which way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 My 1♠ decision is because 6 of the 11 are among two other suits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Playing Standard American, three weak twos, 0 system discussion. Highly unusual for "Expert-Class Bridge". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dboxley Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Three likely defensive tricks. I think most people would open 1S without the DJ, I certainly would. I would even feel guilty about opening a wk 2 with an A and a K but that is probably an extreme view. Roth and Stone originally treated a wk 2 as a descriptive bid but the modern (post 1980) tendency is to treat it as a preempt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 This is a 1S opening. I do not rate 2S at all playing SA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Here's a hand that just provoked a strong disagreement between me and a BBO partner. Both of us thought the call was completely obvious - naturally neither of us agreed which way it was obvious :P Playing Standard American, three weak twos, 0 system discussion. 1st in all vul, IMP scoring. What's your call - and why? How do you rate the alternatives? AJT972K5QJ463This is a style question. The big error is to claim that the call is completely obvious. I prefer a 2♠ opening but would not object to 1♠. I would open 1♠ if I held 6331 instead. I consider the risk of staying too low by opening this hand 2♠ smaller than getting too high by opening 1♠ but it is close.I also like the preemptive effect of 2♠. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 I'd open 1♠ even vul vs not and even in second position. Apart from the fact that the hand is worth it in my style, there is a small factor: AJ109xx is a decent side suit, if partner is for example 2-6 or 1-5 in the majors, hearts are probably best strain, if he has a mino, 3NT could be the winning contract. So I don't want to focus too much on spades opening 2♠. With KQ10 or QJ or even KJ10 opening 2♠ would be more appealing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 1S - mainly because my weak 2s are "5-9", but also because this hand has too much defensively for a pre-empt. ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 What is the point of "Expert Class Bridge" when problems like this creep in? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_20686 Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 What is the point of "Expert Class Bridge" when problems like this creep in? Well presumably "an expert" criticised 1S opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveharty Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 No love for pass?!? 1♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Well presumably "an expert" criticised 1S opener.So now the presumption is eliminated. There might be an expert somewhere who would pass, maybe a few who would choose 2S ---but none who would actually criticise 1S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 This is a style question. The big error is to claim that the call is completely obvious. I prefer a 2♠ opening but would not object to 1♠. I would open 1♠ if I held 6331 instead. I consider the risk of staying too low by opening this hand 2♠ smaller than getting too high by opening 1♠ but it is close.I also like the preemptive effect of 2♠. Rainer Herrmann No this is NOT a style question! In SA this is a 1S opening, end of story. In rhm's system it might be a 2S opening, but in that case rhm is not playing vanilla SA but his own version.For what its worth i believe opening this 2S is a clear error unless playing strong weak 2s. (These are not part of SA) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 No this is NOT a style question! In SA this is a 1S opening, end of story. In rhm's system it might be a 2S opening, but in that case rhm is not playing vanilla SA but his own version.For what its worth i believe opening this 2S is a clear error unless playing strong weak 2s. (These are not part of SA)Quote from the ACBL Standard American Yellow Card SYSTEM BOOKLET: A weak two-bid shows a six-card suit of reasonable quality and 5–11 HCP. End-quote I am well aware that on current trends only a minority of top players would consider opening 2♠ on this hand, not least because not many do adhere any more to SA and have changed their range closer to 3-9 HCP. Yet your Ayatollah like dogmatism (as usual) is completely out of place. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 No this is NOT a style question! In SA this is a 1S opening, end of story. In rhm's system it might be a 2S opening, but in that case rhm is not playing vanilla SA but his own version.For what its worth i believe opening this 2S is a clear error unless playing strong weak 2s. (These are not part of SA)Don't be silly. Of course this is a style question. While I don't share Rainer's style (for me this is a clear 1♠ opening) he was 100% correct when he pointed out: This is a style question. The big error is to claim that the call is completely obvious. I would open 1♠ on any day that ends in "y" and on all days ending with an other letter too. But I would not be upset if an unknown partner would open 2♠. Rik 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Quote from the ACBL Standard American Yellow Card SYSTEM BOOKLET: A weak two-bid shows a six-card suit of reasonable quality and 5–11 HCP. End-quote I am well aware that on current trends only a minority of top players would consider opening 2♠ on this hand, not least because not many do adhere any more to SA and have changed their range closer to 3-9 HCP. Yet your Ayatollah like dogmatism (as usual) is completely out of place. Rainer Herrmann I guess that someone who has little comprehension of hand evaluation might rate this as an 11 count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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