kenberg Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 There is a very long list of American accomplishments done by people who were not born in America. It is my hope that this will continue. Which perhaps gets us back to Obama and the next four years. Yes he referred to the U.S. as "the greatest country in the world". But he also referred to problems that must be addressed, including immigration issues. I wish him, and us, well. Incidentally, had Romney won I would have wished him well, just as I have after every election since before I was old enough to vote. Let's get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Which perhaps gets us back to Obama and the next four years. Yes he referred to the U.S. as "the greatest country in the world". But he also referred to problems that must be addressed, including immigration issues. I wish him, and us, well. Incidentally, had Romney won I would have wished him well, just as I have after every election since before I was old enough to vote. All that time rooting for Romney and he finally got to contest an election. Who would have thought ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 The Petraeus development is a personal tragedy for him, his wife, and no doubt for the other woman as well. Once again I am left to wonder why someone ever takes such a job. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying everyone does it or that it's ok, my wife would definitely not think that it's ok, but really we just know too damn much about other people's lives. An example that I think I mentioned before: My younger daughter posted a picture of me on her Facebook page. She pulled it off the web, I was unaware of its existence.It shows me speaking at a celebration, with a microphone in one hand and a glass of wine in the other. I am past the age when I have to worry that some potential employer might see this, but good grief. We need to develop strong social mores that heavily discourage people from tracking other's lives. It's my understanding from the Post this morning that the Petraeus affair was uncovered by the FBI during some national security investigation. I suppose that it then had to proceed the way that it did, but it's too damn bad. No one gains.When I was stationed in England (1990-1992), one night on the late news (about 11 PM, iirc) a video was shown of a car stopped on some street in London. A woman, provocatively dressed, was leaning over speaking to the driver through the open passenger side window. The car was identified by the reporter as belonging to a well-respected justice of the Queen's Bench. The woman was not identified, but the vicinity where the video was taken was identified as an area "frequented by prostitutes". By 2 AM, I read the next day, the Justice's resignation was on his boss' desk. I was impressed. "What person in the US justice system, or what US politician, would even think of doing that?" is what I thought. I was reminded of it when I read of General Petraus' resignation. As one of my last USN commanders told me (told all officers in the command, in fact) "it is not enough that an officer avoid impropriety. He must avoid even the appearance of impropriety". It's true that no one gains from this incident, but the general did the right thing by resigning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_20686 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I was reminded of it when I read of General Petraus' resignation. When you are a high ranking member of the intelligence community, your personal life is usually scrutinised for security threats. This includes the vetting of any romantic partners. It seems particularly egregious for the head of an intelligence agency to expose themselves to the possibility of blackmail by a foreign intelligence agency in such a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I imagine Petraeus had to resign, and he did. But I believe in the old fashioned virtues: If you have an affair with a married man, or a married woman, you don't tell anyone about it. And you definitely don't write threatening e-mails. Sort of a re-run of Fatal Attraction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 When you are a high ranking member of the intelligence community, your personal life is usually scrutinised for security threats. This includes the vetting of any romantic partners. It seems particularly egregious for the head of an intelligence agency to expose themselves to the possibility of blackmail by a foreign intelligence agency in such a way.I'm well aware of the security concerns involved in high-level security clearances, although I haven't had one these past twenty years or so. I imagine Petraeus had to resign, and he did. But I believe in the old fashioned virtues: If you have an affair with a married man, or a married woman, you don't tell anyone about it. And you definitely don't write threatening e-mails. Sort of a re-run of Fatal AttractionMy understanding is that the woman, Paula Broadwell, wrote the "harassing" e-mails to a third party, not related or connected to GEN Petraus, and that the FBI discovered the affair by looking into Broadwell's other e-mails. Not exactly a Fatal Attraction scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I'm well aware of the security concerns involved in high-level security clearances, although I haven't had one these past twenty years or so. My understanding is that the woman, Paula Broadwell, wrote the "harassing" e-mails to a third party, not related or connected to GEN Petraus, and that the FBI discovered the affair by looking into Broadwell's other e-mails. Not exactly a Fatal Attraction scenario. The NYTimes had an interesting article about a previous head who was famous for his numerous affairs all over the world. Times have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 The NYTimes had an interesting article about a previous head who was famous for his numerous affairs all over the world. Times have changed.I read that too. But it seems that Allen Dulles couldn't be blackmailed because he really didn't care who knew about his affairs, including his wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I'm well aware of the security concerns involved in high-level security clearances, although I haven't had one these past twenty years or so. My understanding is that the woman, Paula Broadwell, wrote the "harassing" e-mails to a third party, not related or connected to GEN Petraus, and that the FBI discovered the affair by looking into Broadwell's other e-mails. Not exactly a Fatal Attraction scenario. btw she lives a few miles down the road from me...in the same area as John edwards mistress. She is married to a doc and has 2 young kids. One does wonder why this third party was so scared they went to the FBI for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Forbes:“I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Team Romney’s polling cluelessness comes after years of conservatives demonizing pointy-headed academics, including scientists. On subjects like evolution, global warming, the biology of human conception, and even macroeconomics, conservatives have been increasingly bold about rejecting the consensus of scientific experts in favor of ideologically self-serving pronouncements. That attitude may have contributed to their loss of the White House in 2012." The narrative should be derived from interpreting the data, not the other way around. Of course, this means one must be willing to change one's opinion, which seems beyond the grasp of some of our evolutionary cousins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 which seems beyond the grasp of some of our evolutionary cousins.There is no such thing as Evolution., just a myth of the Liberal media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 btw she lives a few miles down the road from me...in the same area as John edwards mistress. She is married to a doc and has 2 young kids. One does wonder why this third party was so scared they went to the FBI for help. No doubt, absolutely no doubt, we will learn more as time goes on. Accorfing to the Washington Post story this morning, the "third woman" brought it up first with Petraeus and there are some e-mails from Petraeus to Broadwell addressing the needto knock off the harassment. . If, after that, the threats continued I w I can easily see contacting the FBI. Apparently the threats lacked sufficient specificity to warrant criminal charges but that doesn't mean they should not be taken seriously. It's always sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation when trying to assess the credibility of threats. I have no interest in making moral judgments here, but as a practical matter if you get involved with someone who is married you accept, or should accept, that you cannot have the fully developed relationship that you can have with an unattached person. His relationship to his wife is not your business, and whatever he is or is not doing with this third woman is not your business. If you want a guy that you can make demands on, don't choose a married one. And, for that matter, it is best not to be married yourself. And for God's sake, don't send detailed e-mails. My wife read a story about a guy who got a divorce because his wife had put details of an affair she was having on her Facebook page. I am not sure whether the grounds were infidelity or idiocy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 The narrative should be derived from interpreting the data, not the other way around. Of course, this means one must be willing to change one's opinion, which seems beyond the grasp of some of our evolutionary cousins.Now that the results are in, Nate Silver can calculate the final rankings of all the professional pollsters for this election: Which Polls Fared Best (and Worst) in the 2012 Presidential Race As Americans’ modes of communication change, the techniques that produce the most accurate polls seems to be changing as well. In last Tuesday’s presidential election, a number of polling firms that conduct their surveys online had strong results. Some telephone polls also performed well. But others, especially those that called only landlines or took other methodological shortcuts, performed poorly and showed a more Republican-leaning electorate than the one that actually turned out.A good time for everyone to buy Nate's book. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 No doubt, absolutely no doubt, we will learn more as time goes on. According to the Washington Post story this morning, the "third woman" brought it up first with Petraeus and there are some e-mails from Petraeus to Broadwell addressing the needto knock off the harassment.I read that story too and had seen Broadwell on TV promoting her book. Now it seems that ber book's title, All In, has several levels of meaning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Perhaps we know who wrote this question now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 There is no such thing as Evolution., just a myth of the Liberal media.Of course. There is too much naturally occurring heat buildup on the planet to sustain an evolution of creatures, much less a change to sustainable energy sources. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 ya something wierd is going on ... I mean who goes to the FBI rather than your local police for some email harassment. And then the FBI takes the case....sounds like someone big... Keep in mind we are told the FBI at this point had no idea about the CIA being involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Perhaps we know who wrote this question now. Fascinating! It seems at least plausible that you are right. I think I agree with the columnists skepticism about the reason for writing. There is an old, fun but not particularly recommended, movie Love in the Afternoon with Gary Cooper and Audrey Hepburn. Hepburn is the daughter of a private eye who has determined that Gary Cooper is having an affair with the wife of the PI's client. The husband has purchased a gun and is discussing the situation with the PI. It goes something like:PI: Don't shoot yourself, you can get over thisHusband: Shoot myself, why would I shoot myself? I have done nothing wrong. PI: They will put you in jail for shooting your wife.H: My wife? I love my wife, why would I shoot my wife?PI: Ah, I see. The man has a problem. Honestly, Paula Broadwell sounds like a fascinating woman. She also sounds like someone I would not want to be married to. We all make our choices. In the movie, Hepburn warns Cooper, pretends to be a sophisticated woman of the world, falls for Cooper, he falls for her, the movie ends happily. That's the movies for you. (I cannot imagine I have ruined it for anyone by blabbing the very predictable ending.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 It appears that the third party was a woman who was a close friend of the General. She received threatening, jealous emails and went to the FBI. At this point we dont know if the third party was also having an affair or was just a close friend. btw Broadwell is a LT Col and an expert marksman. senior U.S. military official identified the second woman Jill Kelley, 37, who lives in Tampa, Fla., and serves as the State Department's liaison to the military's Joint Special Operations Command, where among other duties, secret drone missions are worked on. The military official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to publicly discuss the investigation, said Kelley had received harassing emails from Broadwell, which led the FBI to examine her email account and eventually discover her relationship with Petraeus. A friend of Kelley and Petraeus, who also spoke on condition of anonymity, also said the two saw each other often, but the nature of their friendship was unclear. http://news.yahoo.com/official-petraeus-paramour-emailed-woman-fla-195406888.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 ya something wierd is going on ... I mean who goes to the FBI rather than your local police for some email harassment. And then the FBI takes the case....sounds like someone big... Keep in mind we are told the FBI at this point had no idea about the CIA being involved. From today's NYT (You know, the useless biases MSM source that employees Nate Silver) The involvement of the F.B.I., according to government officials, began when Ms. Kelley, alarmed by about half a dozen anonymous e-mails accusing her of inappropriate flirtatious behavior with Mr. Petraeus, complained to an F.B.I. agent who is also a personal friend. That agent, who has not been identified, helped get a preliminary inquiry started. Agents working with federal prosecutors in a local United States attorney’s office began trying to figure out whether the e-mails constituted criminal cyber-stalking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Life would be simpler if everything was clearcut with indisputable interpretations. Instead, we often have to use our experience to decide if something sounds plausible. For me, if a woman (or a man, but woman in this case) receives strange and hostile e-mails from someone whom she doesn't much know or at least is not at all her friend, it is very reasonable to think she would decide it's better to be safe than sorry and take some sort of action. It's in the nature of e-mail that it crosses state lines so the feds seem the natural people to contact. And if she has a friend in the FBI, that seems a reasonable place to start for advice. This seems totally natural to me. As for Petraeus, I have been impressed by how shocked his friends and staff were. I do not at all live in the fast lane, but I have heard of such misbehavior before, sometimes even with those I like and respect. In the Post this morning someone was quoted as saying he thought perhaps the change from the structured life of the military to civilian life played a role. I don't think that's crazy at all. But anyway, he would not be the first guy approaching sixty to get involved with a younger woman. (Before my re-marriage eighteen years ago, my daughter put forth a rule that I was not allowed to date anyone younger than she was.) Apparently those who know him are authentically shocked. As for Ms. Broadwell, I can see the attraction and I don't mean just her good looks. Intelligent, hard driving, physically strong, competitive. This can be attractive. Unfortunately she also appears to have a possessive jealous streak. And perhaps a weak ability to judge, or be influenced by, the consequences of her actions. Everyone involved in this mess has my sympathy. Ms. Kelley and her family are at the top of my sympathy list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Good article in Mother Jones http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/11/microscope-moves-david-petraeus-fbi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Texas wants to secede. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Texas wants to secede. LOL They keep promising us, but never seem to come through when it counts... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted November 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Texas wants to secede. LOLImagine how long our border fence would have to be if that happened! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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