whereagles Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 At 'red' (V vs. NV) you hold as dealer: ♠ x♥ KQ8xxx♦ --♣ AKQxxx Playing 2/1, what do you open? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben47 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 1♥ seems obvious. What happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 1♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikos59 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Indeed, 1H -what else? nikos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daswallow Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 I bid 1♥, no way this will be passed out and we can bid the clubs later. The opps will likely bid spades anyway so opening 1♣ wouldn't save much bidding space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 At 'red' (V vs. NV) you hold as dealer: ♠ x♥ KQ8xxx♦ --♣ AKQxxx Playing 2/1, what do you open?1♥ ;) is there ANY rational reason for for opening ANYTHING else (at 2/1 that is)??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Well, one might consider this 2-loser hand is "just strong enough" to open 2C ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Well, one might consider this 2-loser hand is "just strong enough" to open 2C ;) The problem with 2♣ is the bidding might be at 5♦ before you have a chance to show either of your suits.... 2♣-(3♦)-Pass-5♦, or worse yet, 4♠ from partner on 2♣-(4♦)-4♠-Pass-? It is much better to introduce your suit naturally at the one level. I start 1♥ and for me, this would not be a stretch for my 2♣ requirement, experience has shown this is not a good way to start such hands. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 The previous question of 2 suiter was a 5-5 hand with not too many losers and many prefered 2c to 1h, here a 6-6 is different, your hand is weaker on hcp, so you dont have much diffence, your 6-6 need more time to show then 5-5, and 6-6 give less chances of being passed out. so even if you add the J10 of heart making this look like an easy 11 tricks hand, still 1h will be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Well, since everybody is clearly geared towards a 1♥ opener, I might as well give you the rest of the story. I also opened 1♥, mostly with an eye on vulnerability, expecting the auction to come back to me in anything from 3 to 6 spades, lol :) But pard surprised me by bidding a natural 3NT (13-15, usually no heart fit). No problem. I bid 4♣ (nat 55, slamish). And it goes.. 1♥ 3NT4♣ 4♥?? now what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoob Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 anything but ♥? :) i don't have very strict cue-bidding agreements with my reg. partner, so i might very well bid 5♠ here with a pickup i probably bid 5♦ though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Id bid ♣ which should be natural i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Opening 2♣ with less than 20 HCP is simply nuts. after natural 3NT and 4♥ this is just a guess, you cannot ask for specific aces there is even a great risk of 2 ♥ losers, so I would just bid 6♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 But pard surprised me by bidding a natural 3NT (13-15, usually no heart fit). No problem. I bid 4♣ (nat 55, slamish). And it goes.. 1♥ 3NT4♣ 4♥?? now what? Partner only needs.. ♠A and ♥A to have great play for 7♣. He might raise to 4♥ here on doubleton heart ace. We know his 13-15 hcp are outside of clubs, and we really do expect he has Ax of hearts. The only bid here is 5♦ Exclusion blackwood (assuming you play this). I am not sure what your response skeme is, but if it is 0,3 - 1,4 you will be alright. If he shows two key cards (the major aces), bid 7♣. At matchpoint you should try 7♥ maybe, as it scores more, and 4-1 ♥ is only 16%, but I am not risking vulnerable game and grand slam bonus at imps. If partner corrects 7♣ to 7♥ will have three hearts (and I hope they don't get a club ruff on the get go). Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 5♦ would NOT be exclusion blackwood, but would definitely be some sort of diamond control with hearts as trumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 5♦ would NOT be exclusion blackwood, but would definitely be some sort of diamond control with hearts as trumps. Well, for you it would not be. Fred use to suggest that all five level bids not be cue-bids. He has softened this view obviously if you have seen his latest bidding. I never followed his original suggestion on bids above our game suit. My rules are (and have always been), jumps above game are Exclusion, and if no cue-bidding has occurred (as in this auction), then a new suit above our fit at the four level IS EXCLUSION blackwood. In this hand, there has been no cue-bidding, so for me, 5♦ is exclusion blackwood... If 5♦ isn't exclusion blackwood you have two choices. 1) you can assume that 4♥, by passing 4♦ denied diamond ace or else you would have gotten a cue-bid on the way to 4♥, then you can use regular blackwood. (this would be a nebulous cue-bid as we haven't formally agreed trumps. 2) If you play 4♦ as some kind of last train, agreeing by inference hearts, then of course, blackwood is out, as partner may or may not have the diamond ace, so a leap to 6♣ is in order, giving up chances for grand slam. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PriorKnowledge Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 So what is 3N? No 5-card suit (else 2/1), no 4s, and exactly 13-15. So must be 3334, 3343, 3244, or 2344... Have I missed any?But after 1H 3N 4C 4H, must have 3h. Resp would not take a preference with 2h and 4c. I can't think of any other meaning to 5D except exclusionary RKC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Allright, so are the hands:[hv=d=e&v=e&w=sxhkq8xxxdcakqxxx&e=skxxxhaxdkqxxcj9x]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]Me and pard produced the following auction: 1♥ 3NT4♣ 4♥5♦ 6♦6♥ pass Duly made. I bid 5♦ intending to show a void (not voidwood, though). Pard realized correctly the spade ace was the key, and bid 6♦, just in case I meant 5♦ as a 3rd suit. From pard's failure to bid 5♠, I knew 6♥ was the limit. A bit primitive, I agree, but effective :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xx1943 Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Allright, so are the hands: Dealer: East Vul: E/W Scoring: IMP ♠ x ♥ KQ8xxx ♦ [space] ♣ AKQxxx ♠ Kxxx ♥ Ax ♦ KQxx ♣ J9x Me and pard produced the following auction: 1♥ 3NT4♣ 4♥5♦ 6♦6♥ pass 3NT is a horrible bid with 4243 distribution and deserves a bad score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben47 Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 1♠ would be normal but 3NT got you there quickly :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Allright, so are the hands:[hv=d=e&v=e&w=sxhkq8xxxdcakqxxx&e=skxxxhaxdkqxxcj9x]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]Me and pard produced the following auction: 1♥ 3NT4♣ 4♥5♦ 6♦6♥ pass Duly made. I bid 5♦ intending to show a void (not voidwood, though). Pard realized correctly the spade ace was the key, and bid 6♦, just in case I meant 5♦ as a 3rd suit. From pard's failure to bid 5♠, I knew 6♥ was the limit. A bit primitive, I agree, but effective :) Ok if matchpoints, at imps, 6♣ is slightly better. Did your partner really think you bid this way with 0-5-4-4 and were suggesting diamonds as a place to play? Voidwood auction... 5♦ - 5♠ <--- one or four6♣ - Pass <--- 6♣ pick a slam Like others, I am not overjoyed with the initial 3NT response. I don't object as strongly due to the four card major, that is a flaw, but not a fatal one. But with no club stopper and a side four card major, that is a double flaw for the leap to 3NT. There must be a better bid when a hand has two flaws for the bid choosen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 1) you can assume that 4♥, by passing 4♦ denied diamond ace or else you would have gotten a cue-bid on the way to 4♥, then you can use regular blackwood. (this would be a nebulous cue-bid as we haven't formally agreed trumps. 4♦ would had agreed ♣ as fit so you don´t really have a clue if he has ♦A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 1) you can assume that 4♥, by passing 4♦ denied diamond ace or else you would have gotten a cue-bid on the way to 4♥, then you can use regular blackwood. (this would be a nebulous cue-bid as we haven't formally agreed trumps. 4♦ would had agreed ♣ as fit so you don´t really have a clue if he has ♦A. Well.. good to see you have firm agreement on what 4♦ is. I think we all agree it is not to play. The options are 1) Cue bid with fit for one of the two suits shown by opener.2) Some will have played 4♣ as gerber, so this is no aces. We can forget about those guys as that seems a non-starter here. 3) Some will play it as cue-bid with only heart fit4) Some will play it as cue-bid as only club fit5) Some will play it as last train, suggesting good values for auction so far. You seem to fall into category 4. I prefer category 5, but if not playing that, I play it as is a cue-bid with unspecified support for one of partners suits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 The 1M-3NT sequence is rare, and opener wanting to go on after it is even rarer. Therefore it is not surprising that me and pard didn't have any agreements on how to proceed above 3NT :) Still, the 4C bid is obviously natural and slam-bound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 The 1M-3NT sequence is rare It will be far less rare if you bid it on 1♥ with four cards in ♠ lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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