6151

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=sakjt87h4daq875c4&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=p1s2hxp3dp5dp?]133|200[/hv]

[mr1303]

What format is this being played at?

 

IMPs or MPs?

[MickyB]

3♦ is usually played as NF, Kathryn, so seems quite an underbid. If we take a different route we might get to bid keycard. As it is, I'd guess at 6♦ [trying a 5♠ cue now seems too risky].

[jillybean]

Sorry, its MP and a 0-299er game.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

6D

My guess is partner has 2 key cards for his bid.

[mike777]

prefer 4d not 3d...now who knows....I guess pass at MP.

[BunnyGo]

prefer 4d not 3d...now who knows....I guess pass at MP.

 

Agree with all this, especially in a 0-299 field. I expect at most 1 other pair to be sniffing a minor suit slam, and will just take my avg + rather than swinging for a top at this point.

[the hog]

3D is a big underbid. Now I have misbid, I to pass else I am double crossing my pd.

[jillybean]

Ok. Now I will tell you that partner hitched before making the double and tanked before bidding 5♦'s, are you constrained?

[BunnyGo]

I'm of two minds in 0-299 games when it comes to hitching: beginners hitch for reasons beyond anyone else's understanding, so it's hard to get any information from a beginner hitching; however, one should enforce the rules early, so people know them later--beginners have a bad habit of taking advantage of this stuff and should be taught not to. In this case, I don't know what my partner's hitching could possibly mean--it's just as likely he stretched to double, but then didn't know what to do next and has just bid what he thinks we can make, with no extra strength.

 

I'm passing, but I don't know that I'm constrained to in this environment.

[MickyB]

Ok. Now I will tell you that partner hitched before making the double and tanked before bidding 5♦'s, are you constrained?

 

While I am unsure if pass is a logical alternative for an expert - 5D rates to score poorly anyway as 4S will surely make - it is clearly a logical alternative in a weakish game, particularly as we've already made a non-forcing bid.

 

This leaves us with the question of whether the hesitation has suggested that a 6♦ bid is more likely to be successful. My answer is no - while partner could have been thinking about making a slam-try, he could also have been considering passing or bidding 3NT.

[ggwhiz]

Ok. Now I will tell you that partner hitched before making the double and tanked before bidding 5♦'s, are you constrained?

 

I'm beyond constrained and will gently tell pard why afterwards.

 

You can get into all kinds of if this then that on the bidding but I would rather make a helpful point on tempo than win the hand. I don't think for a minute that partner did anything other than get so into their own hand that they forgot to consider the big picture and problem they handed me.

[MickyB]

I'm beyond constrained and will gently tell pard why afterwards.

 

You can get into all kinds of if this then that on the bidding but I would rather make a helpful point on tempo than win the hand. I don't think for a minute that partner did anything other than get so into their own hand that they forgot to consider the big picture and problem they handed me.

 

Partner will probably gently tell me that, if I hadn't underbid by three tricks earlier, I wouldn't now have an ethical issue over a bid that is logically a strict sign-off.

[Mbodell]

I obviously hate the 3♦ bid. But partner could easily have K-fifth of diamonds KQ-fifth of clubs 2 hearts and 1 club and be gambling.

[daveharty]

I don't much like the 3D bid either, but I'm really surprised that several people are passing 5D. It seems to me that at matchpoints, MickyB's point is crucial: 4S is likely to be a common contract and it's going to outscore 5D most of the time. Absent the hesitation, I would bid 6D. From the responses here, it seems clear that passing 5D is a LA to bidding 6, so I think you have to pass.

[mike777]

I don't much like the 3D bid either, but I'm really surprised that several people are passing 5D. It seems to me that at matchpoints, MickyB's point is crucial: 4S is likely to be a common contract and it's going to outscore 5D most of the time. Absent the hesitation, I would bid 6D. From the responses here, it seems clear that passing 5D is a LA to bidding 6, so I think you have to pass.

 

 

I think many people did not see that 4s will be common contract...if so you make good pt...if not?

 

I must admit I never thought 4s was an option here but....worth discussion.

 

if we bid 3d...pard bids 5d

 

if we bid 4d pards bids ?

---

 

in any case if pard has spades and lots of d's agree 5d will not score best.

[Fluffy]

If partner hesitated before doubling, I think 3♦ is no LA over double since the only options are 3♥, 4♦ and 4♠ so IMO the opener has already violated rules by bidding 3♦.

 

Passing 5♦ is very poor, I don't think it is a LA, but I am not sure

[han]

I play at a weak club with a beginner friend sometimes. Beginners hitch and tank all the time (especially self-conscious beginners), I think that in such a game your UI considerations should be more lenient than in an expert game. It is not reasonable to expect a beginner to bid in tempo, and creating problems every time you notice a hitch mostly makes the game less enjoyable for both of you. I would just try to ignore the hitches unless it is really blatant.

 

About the bridge, to me passing 5D is completely consistent with bidding 3D, which was a considerable underbid. If you really want to make a case out of this then I think passing is therefore a LA, and I think that many 0-299ers who bid 3D would then pass 5D. The fact that 4S might be a better MP score would not occur to them. However, partner's tank might mean she has overbid, it doesn't clearly point at bidding on. It could be used both ways, if you pass and it turns out that 6D was down people could claim that you passed because of partner's slow 5D bid!

 

Especially in the 299er game I suggest you just try to play well. You don't want to make use of the UI, but you also don't want to ruin the game by laws that are beyond the comprehension of most other players in the game.

 

As for telling partner about the tempo issues, those discussions are more pleasant if I bid 6D and make it, than if I pass and miss slam, because in the latter case it seems like I am blaming partner, while in the former case it is just a "oh by the way, here is something you should be careful with".

[eagles123]

6♦ :)

[jillybean]

Thanks. Here's the full hand, our opps played in 6♦. When discussing this board post game, I mentioned that I would have felt contrained by the tank

only to be told tempo is ignored in 0-299er games.

 

 

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sakjt87h4daq875c4&w=s642hkjt7dj6ckt85&n=sha832dkt432ca632&e=sq953hq965d9cqj97&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=p1s2hdp3dp5dp6dppp]399|300[/hv]

[ahydra]

3D was an underbid, as people have said. But I think 5D is an underbid as well. North's hand is perfect! Still, what can he bid? 4D, if that's read as slam inviting - otherwise 3H, I guess, then reverting to diamonds.

 

Also, 2H?!

 

ahydra

[Phil]

Even though some Secretary Birds will drop in and criticize your club's policy on hesitations, I don't have a big problem with it as long as it isn't abused.

 

At our club we have an Open section and a Junior section. The junior section can have a masterpoint cap of 99, 299 or NLM, so you'll quite often have players that play in the lower division on Tuesday, but have to play up on Fridays.

 

As a result, you get a lot of newer players playing with the regulars. Some of the regulars can get impatient and will start calling the director on hesitations and inappropriate questions and all this does is make the newer players uncomfortable and reinforces why they hate playing in the Open game.

 

When transgressions occur against me, most of the time, I will let it go, but will give them a gentle, "you should be careful because when your partner bids a slow 5♦ because it usually means they were considering something else. As a player you really try hard to make your calls in tempo, and more importantly, bend over backwards to avoid taking advantage of it".

 

When I do call the director, its never "DIRECTOR!!!", its always, "excuse me but I think we need to have the director come over. Director, please." When the director arrives I fully explain the matter in a non-threatening, non-accusatory fashion.

 

This way, instruction has been conveyed in a constructive fashion, and hopefully the newer player respects what I am trying to say. Just as important, their 41% score doesn't become a 39% game and they keep their ego in check. I think newer players appreciate this approach instead of getting scared against the experienced players.

 

At a tournament, I generally won't be as tolerant. There should be an expectation that this is a serious game, and there are rules to be followed.

[jillybean]

Also, 2H?!

 

ahydra

 

I think I have this wrong and it was 2♠ michaels , but not much better :)

[aguahombre]

So, South, West, and East were all over their heads at this level; and North should play up.

[lalldonn]

I think it's too good for even 4♦, I would bid 3♥ then 4♦. But there can't be a hand you bid 3♦ then 6♦ of course, one of the bids must be very wrong if you bid that way. In this case of course it's worth 6♦ but who can judge logical alternatives for a player who bid only 3♦ before?