aguahombre Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 I would appreciate references to any current position (minutes, etc.) which have determined what constitutes a "final pass", ending an auction ---other than the obvious placing of a green card on the table. Tapping previous pass card?picking up one's bidding cards to put them away?etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 This is a matter for the RA. Are you asking for the ACBL position? Anyway, IMO, the only legitimate final pass, using bidding boxes, is one where the pass card is placed on the table. I do not know if the ACBL agrees with me. I'm pretty sure at least some of the club directors around here don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campboy Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 FWIW, the EBU Orange Book includes the following regulation. Some players do not always complete the auction properly by laying a pass card on the table in the pass out seat. Usually this does not cause a problem. When a player acts in such a way as to indicate they have passed and an opening lead is faced they have passed. An action may be deemed by the TD to be a pass in the pass out seat (eg General 'waft' of the hand, tapping cards already there, picking up the cards). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 I complied with requests from "Black" and "Blue" on previous threads, and put "ACBL" in the subtitle box. Am interested in, as stated, if there is other verbage than the wording of the regs themselves....such as director guidelines and newletters, minutes, rulings which have the clout to become precedent. Focusing, on the final pass, only. Player, for instance, starts putting his bids away not noticing there was a bid and two passes to him, rather than 3 passes to his bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 None such afaik. In your "for example" if a player told me he thought there had been three passes, but there were not, he's still got a call coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 What if he completed putting his cards away, made the face-down lead, then realized there were only two passes? Would you let him take back his lead and make a call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 What if he completed putting his cards away, made the face-down lead, then realized there were only two passes? Would you let him take back his lead and make a call? I would not, I'd rule final pass and the card on the table is the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 The source of this is not quite clear to me; maybe someone else will understand the notation:http://jsteelquist.com/fbc_backup/TECH/BIDBOX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 The source of this is not quite clear to me; maybe someone else will understand the notation:http://jsteelquist.com/fbc_backup/TECH/BIDBOXYes, it is quite clearly on target with my question. It differentiates between INTENT to pass and merely thinking the auction is already over. I wish I knew which Chief Director of what (in 2008) produced the treatise and in what context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 It doesn't quote ACBL documentation, but see item #8 in the list of "speed up your club games" tips... http://home.comcast.net/~dist8adv/archive/jun03.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevperk Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 The source of this is not quite clear to me; maybe someone else will understand the notation:http://jsteelquist.com/fbc_backup/TECH/BIDBOX This is located in the scoring program used by ACBL - ACBLScor. I believe the Chief Tournament Director in 2008 was Rick Beye. As a tournament director in the ACBL, I have been aware of this regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 This is located in the scoring program used by ACBL - ACBLScor. I believe the Chief Tournament Director in 2008 was Rick Beye. As a tournament director in the ACBL, I have been aware of this regulation. Is it a regulation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 The source of this is not quite clear to me; maybe someone else will understand the notation:http://jsteelquist.com/fbc_backup/TECH/BIDBOXThat appears to be an extract from the techfiles, the latest version of which is only available within ACBLScore. The number ("bidbox.081") is higher than that on the version available at bridgehands ("bidbox.033") which leads me to believe it may be newer. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to check the latest ACBLScore version. Note the bridgehands version does not discuss the question at hand. However, the steelquist version does discuss it, and implies that my answer to Barry's question should be "yes, I would let him take back his face down opening lead". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Is it a regulation?In part. The TechFiles contain not just regulations (for the latest version of which I think one should look on the ACBL Website) but also interpretations, which is what that "CTD" thing is. And I'm pretty sure Rick Beye was ACBL CTD in 2008. I note that the position no longer exists. I have no idea why the ACBL abolished it. Cost cutting, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LH2650 Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Is it a regulation?Changes to the Tech Files in ACBLscore are approved by the ACBL Laws Commission, so I think that they can be considered regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevperk Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 In part. The TechFiles contain not just regulations (for the latest version of which I think one should look on the ACBL Website) but also interpretations, which is what that "CTD" thing is. And I'm pretty sure Rick Beye was ACBL CTD in 2008. I note that the position no longer exists. I have no idea why the ACBL abolished it. Cost cutting, perhaps?There are regional supervisors who were reporting to the CTD, who in turn reported to higher ups in the office. It was determine that it was unnecessary to have the added step in the hierarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 There are regional supervisors who were reporting to the CTD, who in turn reported to higher ups in the office. It was determine that it was unnecessary to have the added step in the hierarchy.<shrug> I don't suppose it matters a whole lot. It just seems odd to me not to have a CTD. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Changes to the Tech Files in ACBLscore are approved by the ACBL Laws Commission, so I think that they can be considered regulations.On the other hand, it would be unusual to have regulations which aren't published in a form that is accessible to the people they regulate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LH2650 Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 On the other hand, it would be unusual to have regulations which aren't published in a form that is accessible to the people they regulate.ACBLscore can be downloaded, and the Tech Files read, by anyone with a computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 ACBLscore can be downloaded, and the Tech Files read, by anyone with a computer. If it occurred to them that that's where they could find the regulations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Maybe the ACBL could publish regs and interpretations in your Orange Book for all to see. Until they get around to creating a Red, White, and Blue book ---I guess we will scrounge for compilations of regs wherever we can find them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 ACBLscore can be downloaded, and the Tech Files read, by anyone with a computer. When I used the word "accessible", I was thinking of a procedure like:- Go to the ACBL website- Click "Charts, Rules and Regulations"- Click "Bidding Box Regulations" If I did that, I would assume that I had found the complete set of bidding-box regulations. I'm sure that most ACBL members think the same way. Also, has the ACBL ever stated that the tech files are regulations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 When I used the word "accessible", I was thinking of a procedure like:- Go to the ACBL website- Click "Charts, Rules and Regulations"- Click "Bidding Box Regulations"You mean something like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 You mean something like this?No, not at all like that. If I were looking for ACBL regulations, I would look on the ACBL website. I'd also expect to see the word "regulations" somewhere on the page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Also, has the ACBL ever stated that the tech files are regulations?I suspect they're more like the Director's Handbook and Duplicate Decisions -- advice to directors on how to implement the official laws and regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.