gwnn Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 "Hopefully people will learn to stop mixing up adverbs and adjectives too," he said hopefully. That one drives me nuts also, and NOBODY gets it correct.And sentence adverbs, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 "Hopefully people will learn to stop mixing up adverbs and adjectives too," he said hopefully. That one drives me nuts also, and NOBODY gets it correct. Unfortunately, those of us who don't like this use of "hopefully" are likely on the losing side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Unfortunately, those of us we don't like this use of "hopefully" are likely on the losing side. Not that AP has the last word, but they did decide in April of this year to endorse the use of hopefully to modify an entire sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 I certainly do simply assume exactly that. I was taught that "If you ask Ann and I" is grammatically equivalent to "If you ask I". The possibility that some authorities advocate otherwise is news to me! Anyone else? I'm never too old to learn, but this is a shock to me. It is even a shock to I.lol... fwiw, i agree 100% with you... you and i are in agreement, more or less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semeai Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Honestly, these sentence adverbs are just text-based emoticons. Fortunately, I don't really object to that. Surprisingly, putting one in front of each sentence is reminiscent of . Admittedly, he used "Noun:" instead of "Adverb,", but the effect is very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 lol... fwiw, i agree 100% with you... you and i are in agreement, more or less 100% agreement, more or less, is an interesting concept. Especially the "more". :) This thread has been an eye opener for me. In elementary school I learned what I would now describe as "Practical Grammar". I was taught to speak in such a way that I would not embarrass the family. Eight parts of speech, Rules such as "ask Ann and I" is equivalent to "ask I" and therefore wrong. When I got to high school I tried to fit in with my new classmates by using double negatives and saying f*** a lot but I soon got past that. I learned a bit more about grammar in Spanish class, but that was it. English class was mostly reading, and mostly I didn't do it. If I am ever given the opportunity for time travel, I want to check out my memories of my eighth grade class (no, it is not first on my list but still..). I believe every one of us could handle simple grammar, and we could all compute percentages and such. We did not know the sort of advanced grammar discussed here, and we did not know algebra. Now it is very different. Some learn algebra in seventh grade or even earlier, and their grammar is impeccable. The rest, a much larger group, seem to know almost nothing. I liked it the old way. Algebra was easy when I was 13. I am not so sure it would have been when I was 10. This thread has been far more interesting to me than I expected when I first posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 When I got to high school I tried to fit in with my new classmates by using double negatives and saying f*** a lot but I soon got past that. These are two things which do not bother me. I used to mind double negatives until I read the sentence, "She couldn't not run." It makes different logical sense than "She could run," and conveys extra information without being grammatically incorrect. Swearing can also be done with very effective use while being grammatically correct to convey meaning in a unique and interesting way. I'll refrain from presenting examples here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantumcat Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 "Hopefully people will learn to stop mixing up adverbs and adjectives too," he said hopefully. That one drives me nuts also, and NOBODY gets it correct.I only ever hear adverbs and adjectives get mixed up on American TV shows. For example "You did good" or, "That went real quick". If someone without an American accent said it, it would sound really odd. The hopefully thing though, you hear that all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 she was getting very tired of me saying "Ruth ask them this, Ruth ask them that". Helpful hint: use a possessive pronoun with a gerund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 "You did good" That one has been adopted quite widely over here, but I have the impression it's quite deliberate slang rather than being due to any problem distinguishing adjectives from adverbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 The name for this phenomenon is "hypercorrection": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HypercorrectionThanks for that link, it is a funny read. Who would know that "schedule" is a hypercorrection, it "should" be "scedule". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squealydan Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Ken should not visit New Zealand. "Between you and I" is absolute standard usage here and the decline started at least 25 years ago, as I can recall my university flatmates using it. At the time I suspected they thought it sounded posh. Using "and me" in these situations has become so rare that whenever I use it, I half-expect to be corrected. Even worse, the opposite is starting to invade - object pronouns appearing in place of subjects. It is not at all uncommon to hear people say "her and I were talking last night". It sounds so ridiculously unnatural to me that I can't imagine how people started to use it, but many of my colleagues have abandoned "he" and "she" in these situations. I expect it to make it onto tv and radio fairly soon. And the word "good" has won the battle over "well". How are you? Good! Strangely, "hopefully" has never bothered me. It is so uncommon for me to want to use the word in its original sense, or even to see it used anywhere in such a way, that its current usage seems like the only one I've ever known. So I guess I sometimes fall into the "if it's how it's used, then it's correct" camp. Anyway, back to your original post - isn't the ability to mangle the English language a pre-requisite for anyone seeking leadership of the Republican Party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Anyway, back to your original post - isn't the ability to mangle the English language a pre-requisite for anyone seeking leadership of the Republican Party?Some of the very same grating mistakes came from the mouths of speakers at the Democratic convention last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squealydan Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Some of the very same grating mistakes came from the mouths of speakers at the Democratic convention last night. Sorry, I'm a long way from the US. All I know is Letterman's "great moments in Presidential speeches" hasn't been aired too often in the past three years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Helpful hint: use a possessive pronoun with a gerund. Correction noted. Physician heal thyself and all that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Ken should not visit New Zealand. "Between you and I" is absolute standard usage here and the decline started at least 25 years ago. Even worse, the opposite is starting to invade - object pronouns appearing in place of subjects. It is not at all uncommon to hear people say "her and I were talking last night". It sounds so ridiculously unnatural to me that I can't imagine how people started to use it. Yes, these are examples of what gets me. As Vampyr points out, I am hardly error free. I have long ago given up any illusions about my own infallibility, and I happily learn from observations such as hers. But in cases such as the above, I would have to consciously decide to violate rules I learned in elementary school before I would say such things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 There are any number of things that have worked their way into accepted usage. I believe "good" in response to "how are you?" is one of those. So is "very unique". Doesn't mean we have to like them. . . Before long, "alot" will be a word and "could of" will be an acceptable variation of "could have". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Am I the only one who finds "Just because (...) doesn't mean (...)" (sometimes "it doesn't mean") illogical? OK, I admit that everyone uses it, and that language is more often than not illogical... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 http://stroppyeditor.wordpress.com/2012/09/04/the-very-model-of-an-amateur-grammarian/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 There are any number of things that have worked their way into accepted usage. I believe "good" in response to "how are you?" is one of those. I don't think it's quite reached accepted usage over here yet, though it's increasingly common. However, the question itself "How are you?", asked by unknown shop assistants and waiters, or when being introduced for the first time, seems to be becoming accepted. I have a friend who feigns surprise when asked it, and replies "Oh, are you a doctor?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 "My name is Sue, how do you do?" Since "How are you?" is not a question that is intended to elicit a detailed, or accurate, or even thoughtful response, I suppose the grammatical details are pretty much irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 There are any number of things that have worked their way into accepted usage. I believe "good" in response to "how are you?" is one of those. So is "very unique". Doesn't mean we have to like them. . . Before long, "alot" will be a word and "could of" will be an acceptable variation of "could have"."Very unique" or any moderator attached to unique will never be acceptable to me. It is one of my pet peeves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Am I the only one who finds "Just because (...) doesn't mean (...)" (sometimes "it doesn't mean") illogical? OK, I admit that everyone uses it, and that language is more often than not illogical...I use it, and it feels clumsy when I do so, but any alternative seems overly verbose. It's kind of like ending a sentence with a preposition -- twisting the sentence around to get the preposition inthe proper grammatical place makes it seem archaic or overly formal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 "Very unique" or any moderator attached to unique will never be acceptable to me. It is one of my pet peeves.The alternative is something verbose like "unique in a very extreme (or remarkable) way". If the simple phrase "very unique" gets the point across, what's so bad about it? The purpose of language is to communicate, not to demonstrate that one has mastered a set of rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 The alternative is something verbose like "unique in a very extreme (or remarkable) way". If the simple phrase "very unique" gets the point across, what's so bad about it? The purpose of language is to communicate, not to demonstrate that one has mastered a set of rules.How about "unique?" How can one moderate the quality of being the only one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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