ATB - 4-2 slam

[Phil]

Just watched two friends perpetuate this auction:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sq3hqjt5d7ct97432&n=sajt2hak2da62cakq&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=2c2dp(GF)4dppdp6sppp]266|200[/hv]

 

Clearly a few calls should be called into question. Whats primarily responsible for reaching a 4-2 slam?

[mike777]

prefer 5d not 6s.

 

 

rest is fine.

[the hog]

Prefer 5C and not X.

[aguahombre]

Don't watch. Too painful.

[gnasher]

North's 6♠ bid.

[mich-b]

If North would double 4♦ , showing a strong balanced hand , and suggesting defending, 5 down would be likely (lead a trump of course).

[mich-b]

deleted (duplicate post).

[Trinidad]

deleted, too early in the morning

[SteveMoe]

Double sees more flexible than 5♣, while 6♠ is wishful thinking. Why can't South be 3=4=1=5? I too like 5♦ after the double to learn more about partner's shape. Bidding 6♣ would be fairly straightforward. I'm curious, was the ♠K onside too?

[ahydra]

Pass over 4D isn't sensible when you have either X or 4NT (depending on agreements etc) to show that hand - then south has an easy 6C bid. Over the pass South should go with 5C. Hard to blame North for interpreting the X as both majors, but still, 6S is silly.

 

ahydra

[han]

They did better than the Dutch juniors, who, on their way to winning the world championship, bid 7H in a 3-2 fit and went down. At least here one player had spades, but he was actually the guilty one. Partner is under pressure and can have many shapes. 4-6 is maybe a bit exotic, but 2-4-2-5 would be an automatic double. Jumping to 6S is completely clueless.

[billw55]

6♠ .. heheh. Four would be ok, leaving south room to breathe. If system allows, 4NT to play would also work (two opportunities for this).

[kenrexford]

Did it make? I mean, the contract is not hopeless.

[billw55]

Did it make? I mean, the contract is not hopeless.

hm interesting .. diamond lead taken, low spade to the queen? Would make a good story for the bar.

[ArtK78]

In my opinion, the pass over 4♦ showed a strong balanced hand. South should bid 5♣ on his 6 card suit.

 

Once South doubles, North should pass.

 

Defending 4♦x is not ideal, but it is better than the result obtained at the table.

[Cyberyeti]

If North would double 4♦ , showing a strong balanced hand , and suggesting defending, 5 down would be likely (lead a trump of course).

Depends on your arrangements and possibly what 2♣ shows, for me, pass over 4♦ is the strong balanced hand and X is takeout. I really dislike the double from the unbalanced hand, you have 6 clubs and 4 hearts, you are not balanced or semi balanced, or any minimum ish 5431 with short diamonds/4414 which is what you say with the double, ie that you don't have somewhere to make a strong suggestion to play.

 

It is very unlikely that you have <3 spades and most of the time you have 4. That said if N realises that you might have this sort of hand, he can bid 5N pick a slam (he knows you have a max of 1 diamond so you are going to have a fit of sorts), you only really come unstuck opposite a 4414, but even then you might make 6♣ on the 4-3.

[TimG]

Not an auction worth perpetuating, shame on the perpetrators.

[Phil]

hm interesting .. diamond lead taken, low spade to the queen? Would make a good story for the bar.

 

Sure, for the defender who ducks from Kxxx :) RHO had K9xxx and wisely did not x.

[Phil]

In my opinion, the pass over 4♦ showed a strong balanced hand. South should bid 5♣ on his 6 card suit.

 

Once South doubles, North should pass.

 

Defending 4♦x is not ideal, but it is better than the result obtained at the table.

 

Isn't 4♥ a possible contract from South's perspective?

 

North is one of my regular partners, but I thought South bid it correctly.

[Phil]

Another question I have: Can really good 4♥ or 4♠ calls be rolled into North's pass? I think I know the answer, but wanted to float it out there anyway.

[ArtK78]

Isn't 4♥ a possible contract from South's perspective?

 

North is one of my regular partners, but I thought South bid it correctly.

Sure, 4♥ is a possible contract. But unless South's double is for takeout, there is no way of finding 4♥. And, if South's double is for takeout, there is no logical way to arrive at 4♦x which could easily be the last plus score available (unless partner converts the double by passing it out).

 

The preempt certainly makes life difficult. But if the pass of 4♦ shows a strong balanced hand (which it would for me) then it makes sense to bid the 6 card suit. Here, that works great, as partner will bid 5♦, and you will get to the top spot - 6♣.

 

South should double on any hand without a long suit. 4♦x rates to be a reasonable spot if both North and South have balanced hands.

[Phil]

But unless double is for takeout.

 

Of course double is takeout. Does South's double look like penalty?

 

There is no way of finding 4♥

 

North bids 4♥. Why is this so difficult?

 

And, if double is for takeout, there is no logical way to arrive at 4♦x which could easily be the last plus score available (unless partner converts the double by passing it out).

 

North passes the double.

 

...

 

The preempt certainly makes life difficult. But if the pass of 4♦ shows a strong balanced hand (which it would for me) then it makes sense to bid the 6 card suit. Here, that works great, as partner will bid 5♦. You may not arrive at the grand, but you will at a minimum get to 6♣.

 

Why do we need bid 5♣ when North can be 4432?

[aguahombre]

There is something to be said for this very old concept:

 

Direct double is non-descript 2nd negative.

Pass is non-descript willingness to be in game+

 

But, the burden of Pass, then double can be reduced if (with enough for g.f.) we knock off our suit-quality requirements for freebid responses and are allowed to bid a six-bagger after an overcall of pard's 2♣.

 

This will help with the strain problems in cases such as the given one, while marginally hurting slam exploration in some other instances. We might even get to show our "solid" 4-bagger in hearts by bidding it.

 

2C (2D) 3C (4D)

P(forcing, waiting)...now responder's reopening double can just be nothing more to say, and he can bid a 4-cd heart or spade suit.

 

Absent that set of agreements, I go with Art and bid 5C, at the risk of losing a heart fit.

[han]

Normally I wouldn't pay too much attention to the old guys crying for a penalty double. They've been playing penalty doubles all their lives and the game has become difficult for them. But I actually agree with Art that there is a lot to be said for bidding 3C directly on the south hand. Sure, you have a terrible suit and your values are bad as well, but you are also 6-4 and bidding your 6-card suit immediately may make it easier later, especially when the opponents bid more. So I think Art has a good point here, hidden between the penalty double stuff.

[ArtK78]

Normally I wouldn't pay too much attention to the old guess crying for a penalty double. they've been playing penalty doubles all their lives and the game has become difficult for them. But I actually agree with Art that there is a lot to be said for bidding 3C directly on the south hand. Sure, you have a terrible suit and your values are bad as well, but you are also 6-4 and bidding your 6-card suit immediately may make it easier later, especially when the opponents bid more. So I think Art has a good point here, hidden between the penalty double stuff.

I did not advocate bidding a direct 3♣ over 2♦, but there is certainly something to be said for that.

 

I said that South should bid 5♣ over 4♦ after partner passed showing a strong balanced hand.