Your bid?

[luke warm]

whether or not ron's 2h is correct vs. double, i still think his partner must show support on this auction... what are the reasons for rho to pass? 1) he has a trump stack and wants his p to reopen... 2) he's got a hand he should pass with

 

he obviously hasn't a trump stack (unless ron psyched), therefore #2... whether 3h or 4h should be bid is moot, support should be shown... but that's just my opinion

[nikos59]

I now answer with the huge benefit of hindsight, but I

wouldn't bid 4H, merely 3. I usually bid 4 with five

trumps but this hand seemed unattractive, also

the lack of spade raise.

 

nikos

[the hog]

Double is not a good call on this hand.

 

"You know pd is likely to pass".

 

Really? Why? partner's usually support when they have it. The problem with X is threefold :

it does not emphasise the H

doubling with a S void is not pleasant if partner leaves it in

If I x and next hand bids 3S and pd passes, now what? Do you want to guess 4H?

[luke warm]

sounds right to me

[inquiry]

2♥ is right, and I think 3♥ raise is right.

[Fluffy]

As usual, I think that a mixed strategy is best

 

Pass = 20% of the time

3H = 20% of the time

3N = 25% of the time

4H = 15% of the time

5H = 20%

 

The relatively uniform distribution suggests a very tough hand with no clear favorite bid.

I was gonna say that you forgot to put 6♥ into the table Richard, but now I read the solution and it is not funny any more :-(.

 

 

you have 5 card support, you have 2 doubletons and a probable working Q; pd has made a vul overcall. Seriously, what more do you want?

 

A 5 card suit implies at leas 1 doubleton, 2 doubletons imply a 5 card suit directly, arguing with both longness and shortness is kinda redundant, isn´t it?

 

 

BTW I really can´t see any problem with overcalling 2♥.

[cf_John0]

At least 2H:suppporting pd while bidding against opp's S!

[Free]

2♠, invitational in ♥. I don't like my rubish, but I have a 4th ♥...

 

Let partner in on the decision.

[Flame]

Id bid 3H. and sometimes might pass or bid 2H as Richard advice, but wouldnt bid 4H or 5H.

[Chamaco]

3H.

I owe pard a raise, but I do not think the LOTT says we should bid 4H.

The LOTT does NOT mean "bid at the level of your combined trump length", it says that we should evaluate ou trump lemgth and the likely opps trump length and base our cost-benefit analysis based on the assumption that total tricks = total trumps.

 

At equal vuln, often simply bidding to the level of our trumps works, but at unequal vulnerability LOTT analysis is very tricky and moe complicated.

 

Here we know of a 10 cards trump fit in H for our side, but we ignore opps trump length.

Furtermore it is likely that with such a poor hand we do not have 4H, but it is a sacrifice, and even then, a doubtful one since RHO did not raise (neither side may make any game).

 

So let's try a LOTT cost benefit analysis:

 

they are likely to have 8 spades. So there are 18 tricks.

If we go down 1 doubled, (-200) they can make only 3 spades (140), when we lose 60. So we may as well let them go d four spaes for down 1 (please note that I do not buy the reasoning "I bid anyways to push them up" against good opps; at this vulnerability at IMPS they are going to sit for a double).

 

If we go down 2 doubled (500) or worse it won't be a bargain against any contract they can make.

[whereagles]

There is no risk of pushing them into a making game on marginal values. You hold 4 spades and a precious little club queen. No way they're going to make a game here. If something, it's PARD, not opps, who's got the power, as it was later confirmed.

[Chamaco]

If something, it's PARD, not opps, who's got the power, as it was later confirmed.

Bidding 3H vuln vs NV will leave the bidding open if pard has a battleship (at it happens here).

After 3H at unfavourable vuln the overcaller can pretty much expect the hand held by advancer and can procede to place the contract.

[flytoox]

Double is not a good call on this hand.

 

"You know pd is likely to pass".

 

Really? Why? partner's usually support when they have it. The problem with X is threefold :

it does not emphasise the H

doubling with a S void is not pleasant if partner leaves it in

If I x and next hand bids 3S and pd passes, now what? Do you want to guess 4H?

THere are just too many hands you want to play in minors or in 4H but pd will pass if you bid a simple 2H.

 

If pd has:

 

QXXX

KX

XX

QJXXX

 

you want to be in 4H, or 6C. But pd will pass your 2H. Or shouldnt he?

 

If pd has

 

QXXX

X

QXXXXX

AX

 

you want to be in 6/7D, but pd will pass your 2H.

 

If pd has

QXXX

X

XX

AQXXXX

 

you want to be in 6/7C, but pd will again pass your 2H.

 

Even pd has

QXXX

XXXX

XX

XXX

you still want to be in game.

 

 

There are so many hands pd will pass your 2H.

[whereagles]

Actually, this one is similar to a hand I held this week-end:

 

Imps, all vuln, good opps. You hold:

♠ x

♥ 9xx

♦ JT8x

♣ Kxxxx

 

RHO you LHO pard

1♠ pass 1NT 2♥

pass ??

 

Well, do you bid 3♥ or do you fear that might lure them into a making 4♠ on marginal values? I reasoned I should bid 3♥ for two reasons:

1. I have reasonable defense (club king and diamond sequence)

2. Pard made a vulnerable non-exclusive overcall on a possible misfit auction. He's got to have them, and 4 might be on.

 

Right I was: he had a battleship and 4 is cold. LHO had QJx of spades and out, and was psyching. LOL :D

[Chamaco]

Actually, this one is similar to a hand I held this week-end:

 

Imps, all vuln, good opps. You hold:

♠ x

♥ 9xx

♦ JT8x

♣ Kxxxx

 

RHO you LHO pard

1♠ pass 1NT 2♥

pass ??

 

Well, do you bid 3♥ or do you fear that might lure them into a making 4♠ on marginal values? I reasoned I should bid 3♥ for two reasons:

Sure, this hand is even clearer, pard streatched to bid 2H vulnerable *in the sandwhich seat*.

 

When pard bids a suit in the sandwhich seat, I will bend over backwards to show him any kind of support I can offer :-)

[Fluffy]

Double is not a good call on this hand.

 

"You know pd is likely to pass".

 

Really? Why? partner's usually support when they have it. The problem with X is threefold :

it does not emphasise the H

doubling with a S void is not pleasant if partner leaves it in

If I x and next hand bids 3S and pd passes, now what? Do you want to guess 4H?

THere are just too many hands you want to play in minors or in 4H but pd will pass if you bid a simple 2H.

 

If pd has:

 

QXXX

KX

XX

QJXXX

 

you want to be in 4H, or 6C. But pd will pass your 2H. Or shouldnt he?

 

If pd has

 

QXXX

X

QXXXXX

AX

 

you want to be in 6/7D, but pd will pass your 2H.

 

If pd has

QXXX

X

XX

AQXXXX

 

you want to be in 6/7C, but pd will again pass your 2H.

 

Even pd has

QXXX

XXXX

XX

XXX

you still want to be in game.

 

 

There are so many hands pd will pass your 2H.

My dear flytoox, I won´t pass a 2♥ overcall from partner on most of the hands you posted, on teh first one you have a clear 3♥ raise, the second is the tough one, ok I might pass since the ♦ suit is so poor, the third won´t matter, since regardless of what you do over 2♥ (I woudl bid 3♣) opponents are gonna bid, and with the 4th opponents are gonna be active again.

[HeartA]

Pass. Don't want to tell them about their 20 point game or 26 point slam.

that's what I think, too.

[inquiry]

Pass. Don't want to tell them about their 20 point game or 26 point slam.

that's what I think, too.

You guys are too cautious. Partner made a vulnerable 2-over-1, you hold four spades. If they play in some 5-3 or 6-2, or even 6-3 spade fit, they are in danger of losing control on repeated heart leads (especially 6-2 or 5-3), and five of a minor is a long way off. To add to that, the chance of a 5-3 or 6-3 fit is greatly reduce due to no 2♠ call over 2♥.

 

The real "trick" to this hand is not do you make a mastermind pass to trick them into thinking you don't have a fit (if WEST makes a takeout double of 2♥ after your pass and east is looking at one heart, do you really think they are going to be fooled?) but rather with a presumed 11 card fit (partner rates, on average, to have six hearts here) do you make the normal bid of 4♥ or do you pull in a little in deference low Offensive to defensive ratio (spade Queen, 4th spade, club Queen rate to be better on defense than offense)? LOTT says to bid 4♥, but common sense says 3♥ is more than enough.

 

Note, if you play 3♥ here as some kind of invitational bid (yuck), you will have to grin and bear it and bid 4♥ after all. Many (most?) experts play 2♠ and 2NT here different kind of good raises, with direct raises to 3 or 4 as weak.

 

Ben

[PriorKnowledge]

2H is good call, but could not argue with X

 

Advancer dropped the ball, big time. Whether you bid 3H or 4H, you cannot pass. LOTT says bid 4H, but with ♠Qxxx and 2-2 in minors, 3H might work out better. But pass with 5-card support because you only have 5hcp is poor bidding.

[inquiry]

I like 2♥ at first, and then double back in second. If you double first, you will miss playing in your 6-3 heart fit too many times. Consider,

 

(1S)-DBL-(Pass)-2♦

(3S)-?

 

even 2♠ here. causes some problems, or consider

 

(1S)-DBL-(2S)-Pass

(3/4S)-?

 

or

 

(1S)-DBL-(2s)-3D

(3/4S)-?

 

Now on this hand, with your partner having a surpise five hearts, you will find your heart fit with double or bidding hearts at first. But, and t his is important, doubling first with six hearts can lose your major. I love the 2♥ overcall, I do not like the initial double.

 

Ben

[pclayton]

Well, you might twist my arm and make me bid 3♥ call, but thats about it. My experience AT THESE COLORS tells me that 4♥ is just too much. All too often, we get doubled and go for -500. End of story.

 

Ask yourself what you would do if partner OPENED 1♥? I think you would get a very critical reaction of 4♥. Most here would opt for a preemptive 3♥ raise, citing the low ODR.

 

I've seen Ron's hand and I can sympathize. Even after a 3♥ raise, I think its a bit much to get to 6. As it turns out everything in my hand is fantastic; the doub ♦ and the Q♣ are all pulling their weight. I doubt his reason for posting was to demonstrate how good a slam it was; I think he wanted to show that we need to get to game.

 

I think the tap scenario in 4♠ is relevant only when hearts are 3-0, if spades are 5-3. RHO didn't raise spades, so spades rate to be 6 or 7 long in LHO. That's if they have a spade fit at all.

 

Lets look at a few other hands pard can hold for the 2♥ overcall:

 

xx

AKxxx

Kxxx

Kx

 

4♥ looks to be a quiet down 1. +130 for them - not much to discuss.

 

x

AKxxxx

Qxx

Kxx

 

Hard to determine. 4♥ is again -1. 4♠ requires a little care, but not much. Assuming spades are 6-2, the tap won't come into play, assuming declarer knocks out the K♣ first. Will they get there? LHO knows to bid 4♠ over 4♥, whenever its reasonable (how many times have we said that around here).

 

xx

KJTxxx

Kx

Kxx

 

You say you wouldn't overcall on this at adverse? I would. Partner is condemned to -500.

 

x

AKJxxx

Axx

Kxx

 

About the best reason for raising to 3 is hands like this. Will pard carry on to 5 over 4♠? Lets hope not.

[inquiry]

Well, you might twist my arm and make me bid 3♥ call, but thats about it. My experience AT THESE COLORS tells me that 4♥ is just too much.

Well, I never argued for 4♥ with this hand. In fact I argued against it.

[the hog]

Yes I doubt whether you or anyone will get to slam and that was not the reason for posting it. I just wondered whether anyone else would find the unbelievable, (to me anyway), pass.

[Fluffy]

pass is just a psycke bid Ron, I could do it or not, you should understand, after all you are the 4-handed player not me!