1H-2S* / 1S-2H*

[RunemPard]

Hello,

 

Not sure if this should go in natural or non-natural, but the openings are natural SAYC 5cM. The idea I am playing w/ is to use the other major at the 2 level to show one of 2 possibilities...

 

1♥-2♠* (Concealed splinter (not sure on strength) or a good 6 card ♠ suit (11-13ish) values.)

2N: Asking

---3♣: Splinter ♣

---3♦: Splinter ♦

---3♥: Splinter ♠

---3♠: 6♠ 11-13 HCP

 

1♠-2♥* (Concealed splinter (not sure on strength) or any GF w/ 5♥.)

2N: Asking

---3♣: Splinter ♣

---3♦: Splinter ♦

---3♥: Splinter ♥

---3♠: GF w/ 5♥

 

What are your thoughts? I am thinking that it may be slightly useful to have an option to keep the auction lower. It may however cause some bidding issues if there is a misfit. My main concern would be what point range to have with them if using standard splinters as well.

 

I appreciate any responses,

 

Don

[TWO4BRIDGE]

One quick observation for 1♠ - 2H! ....

2S! ( not 2NT ) as the "ask" might be better ( lower at least ) .

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Here is Zelandakh's splinter structure for these sequences ( posted in February );

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/51057-mini-splinters/

 

1♠ - 2NT = mini-splinter in any suit or "in-between" splinter in any suit

========

3♣ = relay

... - 3♦ = mini-splinter in diamonds

... - 3♥ = mini-splinter in hearts

... - 3♠ = mini-splinter in clubs

... - 3NT = in-between void splinter (4♣ asks where)

... - 4♣ = in-between splinter, singleton club

... - 4♦ = in-between splinter, singleton diamond

... - 4♥ = in-between splinter, singleton heart

 

The same structure applies after 1♥ - 2♠.

 

1♠ - 3♣ and 1♥ - 2NT now become the GF raise (equivalent of Jacoby) and this frees-up 1♠ - 3♦ and 1♥ - 3♣ to use as a limit raise.

[han]

The 1S - 2H is the worst convention I have seen in a long time.

[bluecalm]

The 1S - 2H is the worst convention I have seen in a long time.

 

Why ? Hands with hearts will now have all freed splinter bids available for enhanced precision !

[mikestar13]

The 1S - 2H is the worst convention I have seen in a long time.

 

Quite true, though I'd rank 1♥-2♠ just about as bad. Best counter move is for opponents to interfere aggressively. Responder may still be able to unwind 1♠-(P)-2♥-(3♦) ,but how do you propose to handle it if next hand tries 4♦ instead?

[mikestar13]

The 1S - 2H is the worst convention I have seen in a long time.

 

Quite true, though I'd rank 1♥-2♠ just about as bad. Best counter move is for opponents to interfere aggressively. Responder may still be able to unwind 1♠-(P)-2♥-(3♦) ,but how do you propose to handle it if next hand tries 4♦ instead?

[Phil]

I guess some people's idea of natural bidding is different than mine.

[aguahombre]

I recommend that my opponents use as many gadgets like these as possible.

 

My favorite movies are where the bad guy takes a fancy Kung Fu stance, and the good guy just shoots him.

[the hog]

I think 1S 2H is worse than 1H 2S however i don't think much of either of them.

[RunemPard]

Thanks for the input. I am sure this can be made more playable as well. The opener is by no means required to sit around and relay. They are allowed to bid 2nd suit always when they know that my major is of not so great interest. The gain IMO comes when we have a fit with a splinter to show at a lower level. If my partner lacks heart support after 1S-2H, they have the ability to rebid their suit to show length, or the ability to show a 2nd suit. Typically if they are stronger, or have support to my potential suit, they would relay in most cases.

[RunemPard]

But again, this is just something I wanted to put out for thoughts. It does seem playable to me, but the gains/losses are of question for sure.

[han]

It rarely happens that I come back to a forgotten thread and agree with my initial post. Here I do.

 

1S - 2H is already very difficult in standard bidding, with many different objectives and very little room. Now you want to show the gameforcing hearts hand by starting with 1S - 2H - 2NT - 3S. What a terrible idea! Reading the BBO forums you see a lot of bad ideas but this is easily the worst I've seen since the last time I read this thread.

 

Bluecalms reaction was classic though.

[gwnn]

There are some Norwegian dudes who play something like

 

1S-2H*=GF with hearts or a very weak 3-card raise to 2S (think 0-4 hcp).

 

That might just about work because opener will rarely have a hand strong enough to want to bid anything but 2S over it. Of course, you lose natural sequences like 1S-2H; 3m and the likes, so it still comes at a cost.