What do you bid

[canaya14]

Playing IMPS, all red, playing 2/1 forcing game, your partner deals and open 1♠

You hold:

♠ --

♥ Axxx

♦ A10xx

♣ KQJxx

You bid 2♣ and partner rebid 4♠, what would you bid over that?

[mike777]

pass

 

 

I could not have a worse hand.

 

 

If pard wanted to know more he could bid 2s or 3s demanding I cuebid.

 

Of course 4s does not exist...silly bid.

 

Please dont tell me this is a picture showing bid showing whatever

[jillybean]

pass and find a new partner

[Hanoi5]

I'm asking for key cards. Two and the queen and I'm getting to six. If it isn't on I'm having a little chat with partner about the meaning/reason for 2/1 f.g.

[mikestar13]

pass

 

 

I could not have a worse hand.

 

 

If pard wanted to know more he could bid 2s or 3s demanding I cuebid.

 

Of course 4s does not exist...silly bid.

 

Please dont tell me this is a picture showing bid showing whatever

 

OK, I'll tell you this bid could logically be a picture bid showing great trumps and nothing else noteworthy (No A, K, stiff,void on the side.) This makes pass obvious: we're off A♣ and two red kings.

[mikestar13]

pass

 

 

I could not have a worse hand.

 

 

If pard wanted to know more he could bid 2s or 3s demanding I cuebid.

 

Of course 4s does not exist...silly bid.

 

Please dont tell me this is a picture showing bid showing whatever

 

OK, I'll tell you this bid could logically be a picture bid showing great trumps and nothing else noteworthy (No A, K, stiff, or void on the side.) This makes pass obvious: we're off A♣ and two red kings.

[the hog]

Eh! 1S 2m 4S certainly does exist! It shows a minimum opening with long and very good Spades.

An example in the contest of the responding hand might be:

 

KQJTxxx

xx

KQ

xx

 

Here you would be off 2 aces. I do not understand those who say the bid does not exist, or "get a new partner". I think it is silly to say the bid does not exist.

[mike777]

Eh! 1S 2m 4S certainly does exist! It shows a minimum opening with long and very good Spades.

An example in the contest of the responding hand might be:

 

KQJTxxx

xx

KQ

xx

 

Here you would be off 2 aces. I do not understand those who say the bid does not exist, or "get a new partner". I think it is silly to say the bid does not exist.

 

 

easy 2s rebid......geez

 

 

Imean if this is 4s rebid then pls alert and tell partner

 

I mean this bid shows KQ of d for example and xx in clubs?

[RunemPard]

If the bid promises no offsuit A or K, easy pass...

 

Honestly, even if it promises the top 3 honors, no single, and maybe 1 offsuit K, slam really is not our goal either.

 

But yea, expecting what the rest say, and I just want to pass.

[the hog]

easy 2s rebid......geez

 

 

Imean if this is 4s rebid then pls alert and tell partner

 

I mean this bid shows KQ of d for example and xx in clubs?

 

I don't understand you Mike, 4S is a highly descriptive bid. I don't need to alert the opposition and I certainly don't need to tell any of my partners as this is the sort of hand they, and I, and in fact most anyone I know, would expect.

[canaya14]

To clarify a little, you are not playing pictures bid, and 2♠ rebid could be anything (only promises 6 cards), from a weak opener to no upper limits, expecting p to better describe his hand. You do play some simple fast arrival.

[phil_20686]

This just describes those preempts that are a bit strong to be pre-empted. You can obviously also play this as a picture bid for clubs or some such, but that is a minority usage.

 

The exact hand expected for 4S will vary depending on pre-empt style, and if you play Namyats and stuff like that.

 

With no discussion, a hand with 8 spades, no more than two keycards, and no more than two first round controls. Even if he has AK to 8 and an outside K, about the best possible hand that might bid this way, slam is poor.

 

Note that in standard agreements it is impossible for the spade suit to be totally solid, as we have a 3S rebid to show that, so a spade loser should be expected.

[ggwhiz]

In my partnership the 4♠ bid shows a hand very slightly above an opening pre-empt.

 

I'm just happy to have the controls that will make this.

[jillybean]

To clarify a little, you are not playing pictures bid, and 2♠ rebid could be anything (only promises 6 cards), from a weak opener to no upper limits, expecting p to better describe his hand. You do play some simple fast arrival.

What would partner bid with only 5 spades and a hand unsuitable for NT?

[ggwhiz]

What would partner bid with only 5 spades and a hand unsuitable for NT?

 

They have a club raise or a new suit to bid here.

 

The dillema is when the opener is 1♥ and has 4 spades in it. Depending on honour distribution you might have to rebid a 5-card heart suit if (as in my system) 2♠ still shows a reverse.

[gszes]

QJT9xxxx

KJ

KQ

x

 

a very reasonable 4s bid very minimum

decent suit can play opposite a void. Good

chance of being very short in p 2m suit.

 

bidding 4s with a hand like this helps show the difference

between good hands with long spades where we go slow

with a 2s bid.

 

mikeh is righ that our chances of slam are poor at best.

pass and hope we can make it.

[jillybean]

They have a club raise or a new suit to bid here.

 

The dillema is when the opener is 1♥ and has 4 spades in it. Depending on honour distribution you might have to rebid a 5-card heart suit if (as in my system) 2♠ still shows a reverse.

Would you raise clubs or bid a 3 card suit if you are 5332?

[jillybean]

QJT9xxxx

KJ

KQ

x

 

a very reasonable 4s bid very minimum

decent suit can play opposite a void. Good

chance of being very short in p 2m suit.

 

bidding 4s with a hand like this helps show the difference

between good hands with long spades where we go slow

with a 2s bid.

 

mikeh is righ that our chances of slam are poor at best.

pass and hope we can make it.

 

If you have this agreement with your partner then it is an easy pass but I assume the OP does not have this agreement

or it would not have been posted as a problem.

[canaya14]

Well, actually, i was the opener myself

I held

♠KQJxxxx

♥Kx

♦Qxx

♣x

To me, opening 1♠ and jump to 4 after the game forcing response means "ok we are commited to game, this is the only one i can play, and i dont see any chance to go further, pls pass, unless you have a bomb"

My partner bid 6 ♠, wich to me is a big mistake (trumps void, 2 missing red Kings and club ace, remember).

Yet my p disagrees to my bid and claim the -500 (2 down doubled ) is my fault.

What do you think?

Tx

[TimG]

What would partner bid with only 5 spades and a hand unsuitable for NT?

 

If you're 5332, what would make the hand unsuitable for NT?

[ggwhiz]

If you're 5332, what would make the hand unsuitable for NT?

 

Nothing. I'm a slave to shape. OK, 5 good spades with a club card or 2 gets 2♠ instead but only if my red suits really blow.

[jillybean]

In my partnership, after we make a 2m response to a 1M opening a 2N rebid will have the other major stopped.

This helps right side the contract and without a stopper, opener simply rebids 2M showing 5+.

[aguahombre]

4S is a highly descriptive bid.

Referring to his example KQJTXXX XX KQ XX. Yes it is. To open that hand 4S with a quite pure 7 tricks (no scattered values) is highly descriptive. Opening it 1♠ and then gobbling up all the space at the 2,3, and 4-levels after pard responds 2♣ does nothing but create confusion.

[phil_20686]

If you have this agreement with your partner then it is an easy pass but I assume the OP does not have this agreement

or it would not have been posted as a problem.

 

This is not so much an agreement, as part of standard bidding imo.

[aguahombre]

This is not so much an agreement, as part of standard bidding imo.

I don't believe the auction:

1♠-2♣

4♠

 

is part of standard bidding, or of 2/1 g.f. bidding. It seems to be an attempt to describe some picture holding, and I agree with those who want to ascribe some picture to unneccesary jumps in forcing auctions. But, unless the exact picture has been agreed, it would be best not to blast ---rather just take it easy, rebid the spades, and let partner participate in the auction.

 

All the pure trick-taking 7, 8, + single suiters are covered in our world by Namyats or 2♣ openings. Other strong "playing" hands with a long suit and more than one outside card probably need to go slower and allow the exchange of useful information.