S2000magic Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Matchpoints, both vulnerable, LHO deals, Std. Am. partnership: (P) - 1♦ - (P) - 1♠(P) - 2♠ - (P) - ? You hold: ♠ Q J 10 7 6 2♥ 10♦ K 9♣ A K 6 5 So, what do you think? Slam? No slam? Maybe slam? Where do you go from here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 4♥ splinter, so partner can judge waste in the suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 4♥ splinter, so partner can judge waste in the suit. 4♥ is so, final. No last train, and you are hog-tied over a slow 4♠. I think I'll start with 3♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 afraid 4h may be exclusion...not sure enough so I will try 3c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 3♣ would be hsgt for me. Maybe those aren't such a great idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 sure prd reads 3c as a game try:1) he should cue if any extras.2) will understand we are making a cuebid if we bid past 3s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 3♣ would be hsgt for me. Maybe those aren't such a great idea. No that's standard, but why limit them to a game try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 4♥ is so, final. No last train, and you are hog-tied over a slow 4♠.If I chose 4H splinter, it would be intended as final, leaving the Captaincy to opener. It wouldn't matter how hogtied I felt over a slow or fast 4S. It was his considered decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 No that's standard, but why limit them to a game try?Maybe I misunderstand their use. To me, this asks partner only about his club holding (in this case, whether he has the ♣Q), when what I really want to know is his heart holding (KJxx bad, xxxx good). I think 4♠ over 4♥ just says no interest, it's an easy pass for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 If I chose 4H splinter, it would be intended as final, leaving the Captaincy to opener. It wouldn't matter how hogtied I felt over a slow or fast 4S. It was his considered decision.I 100% agree. I like 4♥, and I can't really imagine that partner is likely to make a bad decision over it. Why shouldn't I give him the decision when I can describe my hand? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I 100% agree. I like 4♥, and I can't really imagine that partner is likely to make a bad decision over it. Why shouldn't I give him the decision when I can describe my hand?How much are you showing with 4♥ ? enough to make a slam opposite a flat hand with 11 working points ? like AKxx, xxx, Axxx, xx. This is what worries me, I think responder may think you're looking for a different sort of minimum like one with a 5th diamond and some potential tricks from the diamond suit or a better hand, give you something like QJxxxx, x, KQx, Axx where you're looking for AKxx, xx(x), AJxxx, x(x). I think I'd bid 3♣ to get more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2000magic Posted August 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 3♣ would be hsgt for me. Maybe those aren't such a great idea.No that's standard, but why limit them to a game try?Maybe I misunderstand their use. To me, this asks partner only about his club holding (in this case, whether he has the ♣Q) . . . .Will partner know that it asks for the ♣Q? I could see him obviously being enthusiastic with the ♣A or ♣K, but not nearly so much with the ♣Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 How much are you showing with 4♥ ? enough to make a slam opposite a flat hand with 11 working points ? like AKxx, xxx, Axxx, xx. This is what worries me, I think responder may think you're looking for a different sort of minimum like one with a 5th diamond and some potential tricks from the diamond suit or a better hand, give you something like QJxxxx, x, KQx, Axx where you're looking for AKxx, xx(x), AJxxx, x(x). I think I'd bid 3♣ to get more info.He has AK A doubleton in the other suits and you think he will sign off??? You are looking for working cards for slam, which partner will now know are generally outside hearts. If you need other things (like a long diamond suit?) that is when you take a slower route. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 He has AK A doubleton in the other suits and you think he will sign off??? And yet, slam with ♠AK + ♦A, slam is hopeless if he has a 3rd club. While I appreciate the splinterors, pard's club holding seems pretty important. He'll also like to hear about our ♦K, and he will not be hell-bent to cue bid the ♥K if we have possible shortness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Partner is the thinking sort of person. If I only wanted the AK of spades and the diamond bullet, I might ask about keycards, or bid 3C and then ask about keycards, or bid 3D and then ask about two-trump keycards. She will know that more is needed, and that her jump to game over 3C would not have been useful to this auction. Certainly she will not undertake 6S over 4H without something more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 HiObviously start with cue-bid 3c,and it is a normal process for me to check controls of all suits so as to revalue hands before decision of slam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2000magic Posted August 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Partner is the thinking sort of person.As the lawyers might say: assumes facts not in evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I play 3C as a natural slam try (fairly standard here, all invites bid 2NT), but I still wouldn't bid it. I think that 4H is much better. Phil's comment about partner bidding a slow 4S must be a joke. If partner bids 4S, slow or fast, I pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Yeah, the hand is too strong for 4H.Let's say partner has AKxx Kxx Axxx xx slam is laydown and he has clear 4S bid.Imo it will be difficult to stop at game level here. I start with 3C which might come in handy if we need input from partner. He will now xx of clubs is perfect and xxx is bad. If partner bids 4S, slow or fast, I pass. It sounds like you misread our hand. It's 6-1-2-4, not 5-1-2-4 :-)We are cold for 12 tricks opposite many hand which will not even think about moving after 4H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_clown Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I dont agree that partner should cuebid when he has some extras opposite my game try. The cuebid gives a lot of information to the defenders and since 90+% of the time I have only invitational hand I dont think this is really profitable. Of course you will have difficulties with the slam hands, but they dont come that often...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Phil's comment about partner bidding a slow 4S must be a joke. If partner bids 4S, slow or fast, I pass. Let's just say that if partner bid a slow 4♠, I would be pretty sure that I made the wrong call with 4♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I dont agree that partner should cuebid when he has some extras opposite my game try. I agree.In this case though if he accepts my game try with 4S I will be happy to bid rkcb and bid the slam if we are no missing two any and maybe invite a grand if we have all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 As the lawyers might say: assumes facts not in evidence.I was referring to my partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2000magic Posted August 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Partner is the thinking sort of person.As the lawyers might say: assumes facts not in evidence.I was referring to my partner.My mistake: I thought that you were referring to my partner. Sorry. (Note: my partner also is the thinking sort of person, but probably less sophisticated than yours.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Yeah, the hand is too strong for 4H.Let's say partner has AKxx Kxx Axxx xx slam is laydown and he has clear 4S bid.Imo it will be difficult to stop at game level here. I start with 3C which might come in handy if we need input from partner. He will now xx of clubs is perfect and xxx is bad.Partner should move on AKxx xxx Axxx xx, easily, it's not even close. Adding a wasted honor doesn't change that. In fact it makes the hand even better, who knows maybe we have QJT9xx x KJx AKJ or something and our 50% slam just became 75%. It's not like he shouldn't know that xx of clubs is way better than xxx if we bid 4♥ just like if we bid 3♣. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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