There's a gun in your hand

[Phil]

IMPs, short matches

 

r/w

 

8xx Q Kxx QT9xxx

 

pass - (2♥) - 2♠ - (4♥);

?

[TimG]

This country needs stricter gun control laws...

[nigel_k]

The only way they stop me bidding 4♠ here is to pry the 4♠ card from my cold, dead hands.

[rsteele]

IMPs, short matches

 

r/w

 

8xx Q Kxx QT9xxx

 

pass - (2♥) - 2♠ - (4♥);

?

[rsteele]

Short matches require big scores - the only big score available for your side is 4S's. Bid it like a man.

[aguahombre]

4S is pulling the trigger. 2S was passable if I had the expected 6-8 or so; we would have passed 2S, and we are supposed to bid 4S now?

[TimG]

4S is pulling the trigger. 2S was passable if I had the expected 6-8 or so; we would have passed 2S, and we are supposed to bid 4S now?

 

You would have passed 2♠ if the opponents had not bid over it?

[aguahombre]

You would have passed 2♠ if the opponents had not bid over it?

I believe that is what I said.

[CSGibson]

Short matches require big scores - the only big score available for your side is 4S's. Bid it like a man.

 

Hmm, if a similarly minded person is at the other table, then I can rack up a big score if passing nets me 50, and my teammates collect 500.

 

I think passing is percentage here - you don't have any spade honors, your long suit needs too much to be a source of tricks, and you don't even have any aces. Partner is already playing you for these values. If partner reopens with a double, then I'll put him in 4S.

[akhare]

Alas, the gun is empty, and bidding 4♠ seems more like throwing grenade into the auction.

 

So pass in tempo and bid 4♠ if pard keeps the auction open.

[the hog]

I am going to pass as well. If partner doubles I have a 4s bid.

[han]

We have nowhere near a 4S bid, but 4S over 4H with a spade fit and heart shortness seems to work out well very often.

[Phil]

Partner held AQxxxx xx xx Axx. On a really good day this game would have a play, but with KJTx offside and the ♦A offside, I (re)earned my 1100 merit badge.

[mikeh]

many of the needless deaths from firearms are self-inflicted.

 

I'm late to the thread and could therefore be accused of resulting, but, seriously, this didn't look remotely like a 4♠ bid. xxx in spades, with RHO holding values?

[Fluffy]

Partner held AQxxxx xx xx Axx.

 

Is pass-2♥-pass* conventional?

[lalldonn]

Did someone really say they would have not raised if RHO had passed? Really? I see it and I still don't believe it. Wow. One more reminder of why preempts work more often than they should.

[aguahombre]

What happened at the table is why preempts work more than they should.

 

I don't believe it is outrageous for the person taking direct action to base it on the likelihood that his partner has some 6-8 hand with a tolerance for the overcall suit, nor for advancer to pass when that is what he has.

[lalldonn]

Huge huge huge LOL at 7 count (ok call it a 5 count) + 3 card support + singleton in their suit = "6-8 with a tolerance for the overcall suit". You have support and a side singleton, not "a tolerance". Have you noticed partner had a 10 count and we have play for game? What if he had the king of spades more?

[mikeh]

Huge huge huge LOL at 7 count (ok call it a 5 count) + 3 card support + singleton in their suit = "6-8 with a tolerance for the overcall suit". You have support and a side singleton, not "a tolerance". Have you noticed partner had a 10 count and we have play for game? What if he had the king of spades more?

Huge, huge LOL right back at you!

 

Give partner your AKQxxx in spades, but hey maybe make his side length in your shorter minor.....AKQxxx xx xxx Ax.

 

Of course, it might be a good red v white save, but I don't think you intended your LOL to be because we had a clear sacrifice bid :D

 

Btw, I would never have passed 2♠ had rho passed....I see this as a clear, tho close to minimum, 3♠ raise. I would have seen it as a horrible but unavoidable 3♠ raise over 3♥, and been sick to pay 800. But I see this as a np pass over 4♥.

 

It may be my age speaking, but I really don't think we need to chase every possible game contract at all costs. Anyone who judges bidding by whether there are hands, consistent with the auction, that allow game to make will suffer far too many of these 1100s. Now, 1100 was surely very bad luck and I wouldn't have passed 4♥ out of fear of an 1100. But 500 wouldn't be a surprise, and -100 or 200 against a plus 50 would be a completely run-of-the mill expectation.

 

Finally, there are going to be a small, perhaps very small, number of cases when partner can bring us back into the auction if indeed RHO is saving on long hearts rather than bidding to make. Unless, of course, we bar partner by tanking unduly.

[lalldonn]

You just LOLed even though you agreed with me ("I SEE THIS AS A CLEAR 3♠ RAISE IF RHO HAD PASSED"). Just practicing your LOLs?

 

And if you are going to change partner's shape to make it more likely than the real shape, obv that would be 6322 not 6232.

[phil_20686]

I would have passed 2S if rho had passed.

 

I would have bid 3S over 3H though. My hand is improved if they have a heart fit.

 

If overcaller had the K of spades as well they have a three spade bid. AKQxxx and an A is a clear 3S bid imo. (though minimum ish).

 

Bidding over 4H seems mad.

[mikeh]

You just LOLed even though you agreed with me ("I SEE THIS AS A CLEAR 3♠ RAISE IF RHO HAD PASSED"). Just practicing your LOLs?

 

And if you are going to change partner's shape to make it more likely than the real shape, obv that would be 6322 not 6232.

I thought, and still think after reading your post, that you were LOL'ing at criticism of a pass over 4♥.

 

And why would partner's shape be more likely 6322 than 6232? I am pretty sure that the OP didn't have the opps bidding diamonds. RHO almost always has at least 3♥, which makes his likely holding somewhere between 3 and 5, inclusive. Partner will often hold only 5 spades and rarely 7 or more. I haven't done a simulation but I think it unlikely that your suggestion is valid...and if it is, it won't be by much....so let me add another LOL...to your 'obv' comment.

[lalldonn]

Is this bizarro world? No I was laughing was at a pass after 2♥ 2♠ P to you. I just reread everything, and it seems clear to me. I think you didn't back up your train far enough before reading. Start at post 16, which was in reference to posts 6-8.

 

Since I hadn't mentioned it, I think it's a close decision whether or not to bid over 4♥. The actual result was really unlucky regardless of what you might think of the bid, and the opponents were cold for slam as well it appears. I would probably bid, oops.

[JLOGIC]

When I read this thread first I thought it was quite close and kept going back and forth. I still basically think that, not sure what I'd do at the table but I don't mind either action.

[rduran1216]

AQ8xxx J!x xxx Ax thank you very much.