What shape is implied?

[Quartic]

Last night I had the following auction:

 

[hv=d=e&v=e&b=6&a=p1sp2cp2hp3np]133|100[/hv]

 

How many Hearts and Spades should a bid of 4♥ imply now? What about a 4♠ bid?

 

We were playing Acol, so 2♣ wasn't Game Forcing, but feel free to answer for your own system.

 

The full hand from last night:

 

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sakj9652hkq972d2c&w=sq83hj6543dq865cj&n=s7h8dak4ca9765432&e=st4hatdjt973ckqt8&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=p1sp2cp2hp3np4hp4np5sp6cp6dp6nppp]500|400[/hv]

From 4NT onwards, neither of us really knew what was going on.

 

I was South, and I think I should have bid 4♠ instead of 4♥. Partner has suggested he doesn't have 3 hearts because he didn't bid 4th suit forcing, so I shouldn't offer hearts with only 5. Therefore I think 4♥ here should show 6+♠ 6♥, and 4♠ should show 6+♠ 5-♥, but I didn't work this out at the table.

 

 

[Zelandakh]

Say for a moment that you hold ♠x/♥xxx/♦AKQJ/♣KTxxx and the bidding starts 1♠ - 2♣; 2♥ - 3♦. What do you expect Opener to bid now with AKxxx/QJT9/-/QJxx? Where do you think you will end up? I do not think that all GF hands with 3 hearts should automatically rebid 3♦ here. On the actual hands I do not like the 3NT rebid very much - 3♣ seems to be enough. If partner cannot move over this then game is probably not making. When partner does bid 3♥ then 3NT completes the description of the hand nicely.

[fromageGB]

If opener rebids 4♥ this has to be 5+5xx, and if he rebids 4♠ it must be 64xx.

Now to look at the spoiler ...

 

... having seen it, I agree with Zelandakh ; many hands will not bid 4sf with 3 hearts if the diamonds are well stopped, because if opener has 10+ cards in the majors he will probably bid again.

 

(PS. Can't see the hand or bidding, just a rectangular grey blob in a big white square, with comments underneath ???)

Edited August 7, 2012 by fromageGB

[aguahombre]

I probably should butt out of ACOL discussions, but :P

 

It can't be right to jump rebid 3NT with X X AKX A9(8th). I have no idea what South expected partner's hand to look like, but that aint it.

 

As far as South's continuations are concerned, 2H was o.k.; but thereafter he should just try to play it in his 7-bagger. It might not be easy to bail out at 4S after that 3NT thing, though. If responder had rebid 3C, we could probably wear him out to pass when we bid 3S and then 4S, or just plain 4S/3C.

[Cyberyeti]

IMO N has bid like an idiot, 3N is disgusting.

 

4♥ is 5+/5+, 4♠ is 6+/4+.

 

1♠-2♣

2♥-3♦

3♥-3N

4♠

 

would give a much better picture of what you actually hold

 

the 3N bid deserves to find Axxxx, Axxxx, x, Kx and for 7♣ to be good. You might still end up there on the hand I give here, but at least partner has shown a hand too good to just bid 3N so all 3 of your high cards and stiff diamond would be huge.

 

We would bid this hand in non standard fashion as for us 1♠-2♣-3♥ is 2 good 5+ card suits, but not a great hand (artificial 2N rebid for big hands) so we'd continue 3N-4♠-P

[Quantumcat]

The 3NT rebid sounds like it holds a lot of queens and jacks etc. Not aces and kings. I would have though it might be something like: ♠J2 ♥Q2 ♦KJT8 ♣AQT87

[P_Marlowe]

Bidding on, is only an option, if you have a shape, that responder does not need to expect.

 

4H - 65 in the majors, responder knowes, opener has 54.

with 55 in the majors Responder could have checked, if opener has 55 using FSF, ..., well most could use FSF.

4S - 64 in the majors, responder knowes opener has a 5 carder.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS - the 4H bid is ok, but so is a 4S bid.

the 4NT bid is ..., if responder does not want to play openers major, for what ever reason,

why not bid your own 8 card suit?

 

Finally, the 3NT is ok, it is not a beauty, but unless, you want to end up in 3C, when it goes "all pass", 3NT is the only

option you have, given the fact, that you play Acol, going via FSF, would show a much stronger hand, sending a SI signal to

partner.

[EricK]

IMO 5/5 is not enough shape to remove partner's 3NT to 4♥. He could have expressed doubt as to final destination with FSF and chose not to. You need a lot more extra distribution than just one more card in your second suit to override him.