The Sporting Scene

[cherdano]

Meanwhile, the US hoops team showed quite a few weaknesses on defense when they allowed 73 points against Nigeria. They also shot just 64% from the free throw line. Very unsatisfactory performance.

[TimG]

In the New York Times today there was a story about a British pair in some Olympic sport many years ago who won the gold medal after losing a preliminary round match in that sport deliberately. It seems that the format included a repechage, and one of the pair determined that they would have an easier route to the gold medal by losing a match deliberately and reentering the main draw via the repechage, which is exactly what they did. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the NY Times in front of me at this moment, so I can't quote the names of the participants and the sport that they competed in.

I believe it was the last time the Olympics were in London and that it was a British rower that threw a preliminary match. The article that I read that mentioned this (not in the NYT) said that Londoners supported the athlete's efforts.

[barmar]

But the judo contestants were likely coerced by their government while the badminton players made a conscious decision.

"Marketplace" on NPR had a story about Chinese Olympic athletes, and they suggested that the government may be indirectly responsible for the badminton incident.

 

Apparently, Olympic success is a major propaganda issue for the Chinese government, and only gold medals are acceptable. Athletes who only bring home a silver or bronze are scorned: they mentioned one athlete who came home to find his windows broken, and another who was in tears during an interview after the event, apologizing for his failure when he only earned a silver.

 

This extreme pressure may have prompted the Chinese team to try dumping, since their homeland really doesn't care how well they play in general, if they don't bring home the gold.

[wyman]

Yes. Basically the question is whether you'd rather play a team once or best of three. If you're 50% to beat them it doesn't matter. If you're above 50% you'd prefer best of three, and if you're below 50% you'd prefer once.

 

Right.

 

And @dwar, of course it's contrived, but it's a proof of concept.

[Phil]

Meanwhile, the US hoops team showed quite a few weaknesses on defense when they allowed 73 points against Nigeria. They also shot just 64% from the free throw line. Very unsatisfactory performance.

 

Agree. Coach K should make them run suicides.

[dwar0123]

And @dwar, of course it's contrived, but it's a proof of concept.

I wonder if it this scenario still makes sense if instead of 100% A over B over D still works if it was a more realistic 66%.

 

Then you can describe the scenario as 66% A over B over D over A!

[billw55]

"Marketplace" on NPR had a story about Chinese Olympic athletes, and they suggested that the government may be indirectly responsible for the badminton incident.

 

Apparently, Olympic success is a major propaganda issue for the Chinese government, and only gold medals are acceptable. Athletes who only bring home a silver or bronze are scorned: they mentioned one athlete who came home to find his windows broken, and another who was in tears during an interview after the event, apologizing for his failure when he only earned a silver.

 

This extreme pressure may have prompted the Chinese team to try dumping, since their homeland really doesn't care how well they play in general, if they don't bring home the gold.

This logic doesn't make sense to me. Valuing silver or bronze is the reason to dump matches. If only gold matters, then you have to beat the perceived top team eventually anyway, so what use is dumping? But if you assume this top team will beat you, you can go for silver or bronze by avoiding them in the early knockout rounds.

 

Also, I don't believe this was a player decision. Naturally competitive people are unlikely to dump a match of anything on their own, never mind eight of them dumping at the Olympics. My nickel says coaches/administrators made the decision and instructed the players to dump.

[Cyberyeti]

This logic doesn't make sense to me. Valuing silver or bronze is the reason to dump matches. If only gold matters, then you have to beat the perceived top team eventually anyway, so what use is dumping? But if you assume this top team will beat you, you can go for silver or bronze by avoiding them in the early knockout rounds.

 

Also, I don't believe this was a player decision. Naturally competitive people are unlikely to dump a match of anything on their own, never mind eight of them dumping at the Olympics. My nickel says coaches/administrators made the decision and instructed the players to dump.

I suspect silver is fine as long as China win the gold as well, they lose the possibility of gold/silver if they end up in the same side of the draw (and depending on exactly how the draw worked, may lose the possibility of gold/bronze). My guess is the officials told them to do it to maximise China's medal haul.

[gwnn]

Federer-Del Potro 17-17 btw, 4h15m into the match. Neither player is trying to lose.

[gwnn]

Federer-Del Potro 17-17 btw, 4h15m into the match. Neither player is trying to lose.

Spoke too soon.

[Fluffy]

Clearly, this is a minority viewpoint. There was a discussion on Mike and Mike in the Morning on ESPN Radio this morning about this controversy. The apparent conclusion was that, while there was some sympathy for the competitors in dumping a match to better their chances in the overall event, athletes are under a moral and ethical obligation to perform their best at all times. So dumping a match was unethical.

Following this logic they should eject Usain Bolt for not doing his best and not breaking 100m record in Pekin '08 before the final stopping to run the last few metres.

 

 

The only format that truly guarantees that one cannot gain by losing is single elimination.

The only thing you need to do is to change how the ko draws are formed after round robin, let the best qualified teams pick their draws, do them randomly or a combination of both.

[Fluffy]

Phil there is a big problem with dumping, people pay a lot to watch matches, and tv alo pay to show them. Dumping is horrible for spectators.