Heron Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 I've noticed a bunch of the robot games (in particular the free IMP/MP games, but not the races) now swap the table around and force the human to play as declarer for any N/S contract. Anyone else have major thoughts on this either way? I think I basically like it, but perhaps I'm missing some ramifications. (About my only complaint is the giant info boxes telling me the table has been swapped, which block my hand until they go away again.) Also, is this a completely new feature, and will it likely spread to the for-pay robot games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 I've noticed a bunch of the robot games (in particular the free IMP/MP games, but not the races) now swap the table around and force the human to play as declarer for any N/S contract. Anyone else have major thoughts on this either way? This was probably the most requested change over the past two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Also, is this a completely new feature, and will it likely spread to the for-pay robot games?Yes, this is a completely new feature. Presumably, BBO staff is using the free games to work out the kinks (like the annoying message situation you pointed out) before implementing it into the pay games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 You can dismiss the 'Switched' msg by clicking upon it. Maybe i'll ask FG to make the notification less intrusive. We're mulling over what to do with this. To me, it seems like making the human declare is an obvious improvement over letting the humans matchpoint/$ reward be a function of how well the bot plays ( agree, human may have steered contract there). My instinct is to change all the robot games to Human-must-declare. But we're trying to gain more data. We're likely going to pop out a quick survey in a day or two. An alternative of offering Human-declares as a choice seems to me like it needlessly fragments the games (which are already too fragmented, probably) U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 let's hear from you. We now have the ability to force the human to declare when he is the dummy. We do this by temporarily flipping seats with the robot who is declarer. To me, this is a clear improvement over sitting there while the bot does something to you or for you. Is this as clear to you? Let us know. I added a poll to the top of this thread U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 I like the (proposed) change Tournaments are supposed to measure skill in playing bridge.The more hands played by humans as opposed to robots, the more comparisons we have and the more accurate the resulting estimates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Absolutely 100% clear. I get tired of manipulating the bidding to declare because I pull my hair out watching the robots declare. Nice work on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Would this change also apply to Express Tournaments, or any other tournaments where players had the option of partnering a GIB? How about MBC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Is this as clear to you? Let us know. I added a poll to the top of this threadJust felt like stating the obvious... it's well-established that forum participants are not a representative sample of BBO players... it would be nice if you could somehow poll those players who would say/admit that they do not declare as well as GIB does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 We'll poll many more players, never fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Omg finally. Thank you!!! 1000 % an improvement, if nothing else it's more fun to play the hands than be dummy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo LaSota Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 This is a very welcome idea. I am not sure if this will be allowed in the ACBL robot games. As I have mentioned before in other threads, I make some unusual bids in the ACBL robot games in order to get the practice of declaring additional hands. This would no longer be necessary if the human is allowed to declare all hands that end up with North or South declaring. Only issue is that this would result in my average increasing from 61% to about 65%, which may result in less opporutnity for others to win the robot tourneys against me :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Only issue is that this would result in my average increasing from 61% to about 65%, which may result in less opporutnity for others to win the robot tourneys against me :).Does anyone who declares worse than the robots really deserve to win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 You can dismiss the 'Switched' msg by clicking upon it. Maybe i'll ask FG to make the notification less intrusive.Thanks! I'd actually tried that, but my laptop is just slow enough that it doesn't clear right away and I thought it was just timing out and going away on its own. I'd still hate to accidentally click something under it with bad timing, though. For both this and the other messages that are presented in the same way (like "CHAT IS NOW BEING DISPLAYED IN A TAB ON THE RIGHT"), how about centering them vertically in the playing area? Impossible to miss, an errant click is harmless, and it doesn't interfere with bidding. Actually, having the big messages at all for the table rotation seems like overkill; it's quite obvious what's going on without them. Seems like it could just be an autogenerated chat message if it needs to happen at all. I declare worse than the robots in the bookkeeping department (a cat will jump on my head or something and then I'll be all "wait which red spot card was good again?") but their overall strategy is hideous at times. Overall I'd rather get the extra play, and it makes the robot games more meaningful as a test of bridge skill instead of robot manipulation. I'd rather leave the bingo races as they are, though. I think a big part of those is actually perverting the bidding into a robot-declared game on the card. It's weird goofy fun that's not really bridge exactly, but I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 I tried it tonight, and the pop-up was over the chat area, not blocking the cards. But I guess it depends on your screen size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo LaSota Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 It is hard to argue against the fact that the best hand robot events are a great measure of specific bridge skills. A player that is strong at declarer play will certainly be successful when participating in these events. This would become even more true if the human always declares the hands that end up being played by North or South. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 I tried it tonight, and the pop-up was over the chat area, not blocking the cards. But I guess it depends on your screen size.Yes, it appears that the pop-up appears about 20% up from the bottom of the screen, regardless of how the screen is defined. I generally maximize the playing table, which moves the chat area to a tab rather than being at the bottom, but that can be worked around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasetb Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 I don't think it should be forced per se, but I would rather have the ability to play every hand my partnership declares rather than having that dumb ol' GIB play and throw away tricks. At least then, less people can complain about screwups in the play, and I would get to play more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 You could just get rid of the random factor altogether. Make a random deal, find out the par contract and have the Human rotated to be declarer in this contract. No need for bidding or defence whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 You could just get rid of the random factor altogether. Make a random deal, find out the par contract and have the Human rotated to be declarer in this contract. No need for bidding or defence whatsoever. Par contests might be an interesting addition to BBO, however, even if we look at declarer play in "isolation" taking inferences from the bidding (or lack there-of) is a key component of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Does anyone who declares worse than the robots really deserve to win? Well, if all the players in the tournament declare worse than the robots, somebody has to win. "Deserve's got nothing to do with it." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Well, if all the players in the tournament declare worse than the robots, somebody has to win. "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."The context was winning against Leo, so it's a given that there's at least one player better than the bots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Tu Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I'm a bit confused on where to find these human-declare robot tourneys. Can someone point me in the right direction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 They are the Free Robot Duplicate games, matchpoints at xx:25 and IMPs at xx:45. Of course, registration is 5 minutes before gametime and is only open for a few seconds before all 10 spots are taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 They're the Free Robot Duplicates. They run once an hour at xx:15. Registration starts at xx:10, and they only allow 10 entries, so they fill up quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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