Bidding After A Jump Shift

[masse24]

[hv=pc=n&s=s6ha54daq632c8752&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1cp1dp2sp]133|200[/hv]

 

Now....?

 

 

An additional comment: The pinned primer on REVERSES is great information. It would be great to have a similar thread on Jump-Shifts with contributions from qualified experts. :)

 

As Justin has stated previously, bidding after Jump-Shifts is one of the most misunderstood, highest-error areas of bridge.

 

Thanks!

[trevahound]

I'm sure I don't qualify as a "real expert". However, I think my methods are better than most after a jump shift (in a standard 2♣ big framework).

 

I prefer the cheapest call available after a jump shift to be a waiting bid, analogous to a 2♦ response to a 2♣ opener. That gives definition to all other calls, and meanwhile reserves maximal room for the strong hand to further describe. As a consequence of this agreement, we never fake a jump shift into the under suit. When we do make a jump shift into the under suit, we still use the cheapest call as our waiting bid, substituting a different call for the real positive in the first suit. For example, after 1♠ - 1nt(f) // 3♥ - ? we use 3♠ as the waiting bid and 3nt as the original spade positive (usually a 3cLR). If the jump shift is not into the under suit, this also saves room for opener to clarify if the jump shift might have been faked (rebidding the first suit), or to shape out with a fragment, often in support of responder's suit.

 

I feel very strongly that these methods improve standard JS auctions outside a big club type framework. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

 

BTW, in your example hand, isn't 3♣ the clear standout rebid? 2♠ created a GF, and you would be hard pressed to find a better hand for partner for a club slam (assuming partner isn't the type to bid this was 4/4 in the blacks).

[kuhchung]

3C

 

Edit: actually maybe 4C

[ggwhiz]

I play something quite simple.

 

2nt is the slow down, I might have nothing much bid relay to 3♣ and everything else is a gf.

 

Responder has such a wide range it's important to narrow it down and max out your bidding room. Many times responder doesn't know the strain yet. 3♣ is easy here and you might even have a grand that's bidable with enough room for a very long auction.

[aguahombre]

2S was the game force, so that is resolved for us. No space consuming jumping around by me is necessary. Partner will always have 5+clubs and be unbalanced in our style.

 

3C is just fine. Will cooperate with all control sequences/slam probes, and if partner doesn't start it off, I will pull 3nt to start one. Will even show the club queen I don't have, if asked.

[kenrexford]

I eacho the comments that 2NT is the usual "slow down" call for me. Hence, 3♣ stands out.

 

I cannot imagine this being a problem sequence yet. It seems to me that the problem will occur after this sequence:

 

1♣-P-1♦-P-

2♠-P-3♣-P-

something-P-?

 

When "something" is filled in, now we might have an interesting discussion.

[Phil]

4♣ looks obvious.

 

Agree a nice long detailed primer on jump shifts for the I/A would be hugely beneficial.

[Antrax]

If 2NT is the "slow down", what about auctions like 1♥-1♠, 3♣?

[kenrexford]

If 2NT is the "slow down", what about auctions like 1♥-1♠, 3♣?

Weird situation, but the rules allow for an insufficient bid in that sequence.

[masse24]

I eacho the comments that 2NT is the usual "slow down" call for me. Hence, 3♣ stands out.

 

I cannot imagine this being a problem sequence yet. It seems to me that the problem will occur after this sequence:

 

1♣-P-1♦-P-

2♠-P-3♣-P-

something-P-?

 

When "something" is filled in, now we might have an interesting discussion.

 

OK....great. I too thought 3♣ was the standout choice and that was my bid.

 

But....you mention a 2NT "slow down", however, it has a different meaning than a Leb or Ingberman 2NT...yes?

A Jump-Shift is still a Game Force?

 

Thanks!

 

p.s. Would still love for someone to start a virgin thread and expound on these follow-ups to Jump-Shift ideas. :D

[ggwhiz]

 

But....you mention a 2NT "slow down", however, it has a different meaning than a Leb or Ingberman 2NT...yes?

A Jump-Shift is still a Game Force?

 

I play the jump shift to the 2 level as equal to a reverse with all of the above and only a jump shift to the 3 level as a pure game force. Not at all standard so we need a guy like Mike to write up something sensible.

[kenrexford]

There are precisely four jump shifts to the two-level. 1C-1D-2H, 1C-1D-2S, 1C-1H-2S, and 1D-1H-2S. In all four, the pressure requiring a reverse is gone, obviously, which is why the traditional meaning is GF. But, the non-GF sequence (non jump shift) carries a lot of weight. As power hands are rare, i like to dip down a tad to take some heat off the non jump.

 

Plus, the mere fact that the sequence is GF, if played that way, does not mean that all discussions are done, as slam and strrain issues are obviously present. Thus, i treat these sequences structurally as if a rreverse.

[aguahombre]

Others might conclude that since a jump shift to the 2-level is G.F. (if it is), then exploration for strain and level can be handled adequately via natural bidding. The 2NT "stall" is still useful, but includes fewer hands...none of which have support for opener's first suit.

[the hog]

3C looks obvious. This allows for low level investigation.

[han]

I like 4C: 4 trumps and slam interest. Knowing about the fourth trump could be big for partner.

[mcphee]

Personally I like to use 2NT like a lebensohl even though the j/s is GF.

 

As for the hand shown I see absolutely no reason to go leaping to 4C. A simple 3C sets trump suit and allows the opening hand to continue telling about the hand they have. With the responders hand it would be very hard to stop short of slam, but I am going to know about the D control on the very next bid most of the time.

 

augahombre said it all.

[JLOGIC]

I don't like 4C, I would bid 3C. I would like to hear another bid from partner, if it is 3D we will know our DQ is awesome

[mike777]

2S was the game force, so that is resolved for us. No space consuming jumping around by me is necessary. Partner will always have 5+clubs and be unbalanced in our style.

 

3C is just fine. Will cooperate with all control sequences/slam probes, and if partner doesn't start it off, I will pull 3nt to start one. Will even show the club queen I don't have, if asked.

 

 

this

[masse24]

Same Topic....new hand:

 

[hv=pc=n&n=sa983ha2dq9653c74&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1hp1sp3cp]133|200[/hv]

 

The hand is really immaterial.

You may or may not agree with the initial 1♠ response.

 

What I am interested in is, what should the possible (3 level) rebids by responder show?

 

So...what is:

 

1.) 3♦

2.) 3♥

3.) 3♠

4.) 3NT

 

Thank you!

[blackshoe]

What system are you playing?

[P_Marlowe]

#Hand 1

 

3C - I have fit, I show the fit.

 

It is even fairly cheap to do so, so what should I bid else?

 

#Hand 2

 

3NT showes a stopper.

3S showes a 5 carder.

3D is art. in Europe, natural in North America, should

imply a 5 card spade suit

3H showes at least Hx, ..., but if you play 3D as natural,

3H may be based on xx only.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[quiddity]

Hand #2:

 

3♦ is an artificial catch-all. "Please describe further". Frequently the jump-shifter has a three-bid sequence to describe his hand. Maybe he will rebid hearts to show a strong heart hand, maybe spades to show a strong 3514, maybe NT to show a strong 2524, maybe a club rebid to show a distributional 2-suiter. Point is, 3♦ allows him room to finish that description. This should be a very common rebid.

 

3♥ is a preference but it should show something better than xx (you can bid 3♦ with that). Hx for example. Let partner know when you have something useful in his suit.

 

3♠ shows 5+ cards but I think it should show a strongly spade-oriented hand. Again, you can bid 3♦ if you have no clear direction. It's dangerous to make this bid when 3NT is in the picture (ie with good diamonds) because opener might be endplayed and unable to bid 3NT himself.

 

3NT shows a strong feeling that 3NT is the right place to play. This should be based on more than just a stopper in the fourth suit, since 3NT will frequently end the auction even when partner has a distributional hand. Multiple stoppers, slow honors (kings, queens, jacks - not aces - in suits where opener is short), etc.

[JLOGIC]

Hand 2: With Ax of hearts, I would always bid 3H. I realize this might endplay partner some of the time with no stopper in diamonds, but Ax is too strong to not show imo. Our hand is also very strong, worst comes to worst we play 4H instead of a superior 3N and that should be ok.

[Zelandakh]

So...what is:

1.) 3♦

2.) 3♥

3.) 3♠

4.) 3NT

European style:

1. 3♦ is a grope, often looking for 3NT but basically just denying the ability to do something else.

2. 3♥ shows 2+ hearts but not 3 hearts and crap.

3. 3♠ shows extra spade length. Most play it as 5+ spades but it may be better to play it as 6+. Possibly better yet would be 5+ spades with a diamond stop; then 3♦ followed by spades denies a diamond stop.

4. 3NT is natural.