sasioc Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 This hand came up at a duplicate I played in last night and I still have no idea how I'm supposed to bid it. As I'm not sure I like that many of my choices I'm going to give both hands and simply ask how you think the auction should proceed. I was playing with my partner for the first time and had agreed 2/1 with some gadgets but had no detailed understandings about, well, anything, and would appreciate it if people tried to give auctions that don't involve lots of complex agreements! [hv=pc=n&s=skhakqt974dqtc963&n=saqt76hdkj732caq8]133|200[/hv] At my table the auction started 1♥:1♠, 3♥, which gave me a bit of a headache as North! How would you proceed now? Edited to make South dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunemPard Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 I am not sure if I figured this out correctly, being that my math is horrible. I simply wrote down the possible splits in hearts to see the odds. I came to a 50/50 chance that the J will drop with 64 possible splits? As long as 6NT is declared from S, or the K of C is before S, it will make if the heart J drops. There may also be an entry problem, but I think it does not matter much. (Edit: Entries not really a problem...since if they hold off on the A of D we get winners anyways.) How to get there is a good question though, and at what scoring methods we even want to be there. The 3 heart jump would interest me though. It could be a more distributional or trick count jump as it is here, but it could also be a pure HCP jump. Do we really want to put all of our money on the 1st option and ignore the 2nd? I think the best thing to do at this point is to start with 4D IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 This hand came up at a duplicate I played in last night and I still have no idea how I'm supposed to bid it. As I'm not sure I like that many of my choices I'm going to give both hands and simply ask how you think the auction should proceed. I was playing with my partner for the first time and had agreed 2/1 with some gadgets but had no detailed understandings about, well, anything, and would appreciate it if people tried to give auctions that don't involve lots of complex agreements! [hv=pc=n&s=saqt76hdkj732caq8&n=skhakqt974dqtc963]133|200[/hv] At my table the auction started 1♥:1♠, 3♥, which gave me a bit of a headache as South! How would you proceed now? One minor suggestion: In general, I think that people assume that the dealer is sitting South rather than North. From my perspective, the North hand is not strong enough for a 3H rebid. Its a great suit, the spade bid means that the stiff King of Spades is pulling some weight. but even so, I don't think that the hand is strong enough for 3H. (If you're willing to GF with this ahnd opposite any response, you might have been better off preempting) I personally like the following auction 1♥ - 1♠2♥ - 3♦3♥ - 3NPass Arguable, North might prefer 4H to pass however, I think pass stands out (especially at MP) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasioc Posted July 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 One minor suggestion: In general, I think that people assume that the dealer is sitting South rather than North. Thanks, have edited :) (If you're willing to GF with this ahnd opposite any response, you might have been better off preempting) Sorry if I've misunderstood but 3♥ doesn't gf opposite any response. It's not forcing, just shows a decentish 6 card suit and somewhere around 16-18 points if the bidder has no additional distributional features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunemPard Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 As far as how me and my regular partner would bid this... 1♥-1♠2♥-3♦3♥-3N/4♦ not really sure if I would be interested or not...3H typically shows weaker with very good hearts...too good for 10-14 TP 2H opening.4N-5♦5♥/6♦/6♥/NT although I think playing diamonds actually lowers the slams odds? 1♥: 11-20 (5+H)--1♠: 6+ (4+S)2♥: 15-17(18) TP (6+H)--3♦: GF normally natural or fit3♥: Very good hearts--4♦: 5/5 or greater with longer spades 4N: 1430 RKC ♦s--5♦: 0 or 3 keys In this auction...we also wrong sided the NT slam. :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 I can't do much better than 1H-1S-3H-6NT (perhaps with some ace asking in there somewhere). It doesn't help that I recently agreed with my partner that 4y after 1x-?-3x is a cuebid for x. ahydra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 A 3♥ rebid seems normal. After that, I think 4♦ would normally be played as a cue-bid, so getting to diamonds is impossible unless responder jumps to 6♦ now or on the next round. One thing responder can do is check for a spade fit. It seems sensible to do this, as opener could easily have have something like Kxx AKJxxxx x Kx. So I suggest:1♥-1♠3♥-3♠4♥-6NTLooking at both hands it's tempting to suggest1♥-1♠3♥-3♠4♥-6♦but I don't think responder's diamonds are good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Interesting hand in that I would rebid 2♥ or 3♥ as South depending on my mood or state of the match. After 2♥ it likely goes 3♦ - 3♥ - 4♣ - 4♥ float After 3♥ I just bid 3nt protecting the mp plus like a chicken There are some hands like this one where if you offered me 45% mid-auction I would grab it and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 After a 3♥ rebid, I think North should bid 5NT. This seems the simplest way of keeping all of spades diamonds and NT in the picture. In practise I like hrothgar's auction, Responder downgrading somewhat in light of the big misfit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 south´s hand looks like a 4♥ rebid to me, 2♥ wouldn´t even occur to me. 1♥-1♠-4♥-pass is not unthikable. The most likelly auction for me would be: 1♥-1♠3♥-3♠ (only alternative for north)4♥-pass after 4♥ north knows south has upgraded his hand due to good or long hearts, so the hand is a 30-31 combined with no fit and poor comunication, many long suits and few jacks means that slam might be a good bet still but I don´t really know, maybe a simulation from north´s point of view giving south 14-15 with 7 hearts and 0-2 spades or something like would tell us something useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 The probability of bringing in the 7 card ♥ suit without a loser is about 52%. That's assuming partner is void. That's 36% for a 3-3 break plus the probability that you can drop the ♥ J doubleton in a 4-2 break. There are 15 possible combinations for the suit in a 4-2 break. 5 of those will include the J doubleton (i.e. J with each of the other other small cards). So the probability of J doubleton in a 4-2 break is 5/15 or 33%. The probability of a 4-2 break is approximately 48%. So dropping a J doubleton is 33%(48%) or 16 %. ------------------------------------------------------------ Ok, now to the auction. If the heart suit wasn't so solid, you might open 1 ♥ and over any repsonse bid 4 ♥. That's a good way to bid a freakish hand with opening values and a 7 card or longer broken major suit. But with the quality of the suit, it would seem better to open 1 ♥ and then either keep bidding ♥ at the minimum level 1 ♥ - 1 ♠2 ♥ - 3 ♦3 ♥ - 3 NT4 ♥ or take a rosier view -- upgrading the ♠ K after the 1 ♠ response and looking at only 6 losers make a jump rebid in ♥ 1 ♥ - 1 ♠3 ♥ - 4 ♦4 ♥ - ? ? - probably getting to a slam 6 ♥ BTW although NT might just score better at MPs, the hand is probably better off in ♥s. There's no guarantee that you'll be able to get to the ♥ suit and you may need 2 entries if ♥s don't break. Conversely, responder's stoppers and high cards are working at a ♥contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 The probability of bringing in the 7 card ♥ suit without a loser is about 52%. That's assuming partner is void. That's 36% for a 3-3 break plus the probability that you can drop the ♥ J doubleton in a 4-2 break. There are 15 possible combinations for the suit in a 4-2 break. 5 of those will include the J doubleton (i.e. J with each of the other other small cards). So the probability of J doubleton in a 4-2 break is 5/15 or 33%. The probability of a 4-2 break is approximately 48%. So dropping a J doubleton is 33%(48%) or 16 %. forgot stiff jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 6NT by responder makes all of the time that 6♥ does, and has significant extra chances. On a club lead you cross to a spade and test the hearts. If hearts dont come in, you have the extra ~10% chance that diamonds are 3-3 with ♦A in the short heart hand. On a major-suit lead, you do the same thing, but the extra chance will also need the club finesse. 3NT is better than 4♥ for the same reason - you will usually get a club lead, so you'll usually make at least as many tricks as in hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) It is easier to look at the North hand, and then decide not to open 4♥ as South. Edit: (FMP) Edited July 24, 2012 by aguahombre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Did you mean "than"? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikl_plkcc Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 This hand came up at a duplicate I played in last night and I still have no idea how I'm supposed to bid it. As I'm not sure I like that many of my choices I'm going to give both hands and simply ask how you think the auction should proceed. I was playing with my partner for the first time and had agreed 2/1 with some gadgets but had no detailed understandings about, well, anything, and would appreciate it if people tried to give auctions that don't involve lots of complex agreements! [hv=pc=n&s=skhakqt974dqtc963&n=saqt76hdkj732caq8]133|200[/hv] At my table the auction started 1♥:1♠, 3♥, which gave me a bit of a headache as South! How would you proceed now? Edited to make South dealer. In my system, adjusted to 2/1, goes 1♥ - 1♠2♥ (not enough to make a GF 3♥ rebid) - 3♦ (responder's new suit is still forcing)3♥ (I have SOLID hearts!!!!! Please don't argue with me!) - 3NT (to play) I bid 3NT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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