Phil Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Mark and I were generally on the same page during the GNT's. Here's a hand that cost in our loss. [hv=pc=n&w=sakj5h6da942ck965&e=s42hakqj42dqt63c3&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1dp1hp1sp3hp4cp4hp4np6hp6Npp]266|200[/hv] This is a week old, and I might have the black suits in West a little off, but this pretty close. A few notes: 1. 1♠ is unbalanced2. 3♥ is forcing, per xyz3. We play kickback, so 4♠ is supposed to be a cue Some side questions: 1. Does 3♥ 'set trump' in an xyz auction? Does it matter if the rebid is 1 of a suit or 1N? 2. How strong is 3♥? Is it simply GF and shows great trump? Or is it a serious try but could have marginal trump? 3. Any comments on 4♣? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 i would go for 3h being a Gf with hot trumps. I never want to learn kickback, so I'm not au fait with its use, but making a second effort (after 4♣) on the west hand, whatever it means, is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rduran1216 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Mark and I were generally on the same page during the GNT's. Here's a hand that cost in our loss. [hv=pc=n&w=sakj5h6da942ck965&e=s4hakqj42dqt63c32&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1dp1hp1sp3hp4cp4hp4np6hp6Npp]266|200[/hv] This is a week old, and I might have the black suits in West a little off, but this pretty close. A few notes: 1. 1♠ is unbalanced2. 3♥ is forcing, per xyz3. We play kickback, so 4♠ is supposed to be a cue Some side questions: 1. Does 3♥ 'set trump' in an xyz auction? Does it matter if the rebid is 1 of a suit or 1N? 2. How strong is 3♥? Is it simply GF and shows great trump? Or is it a serious try but could have marginal trump? 3. Any comments on 4♣? I think everything is fine up until 4H. This has to be minimalish with solid hearts, it should end the auction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwic Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 but making a second effort (after 4♣) on the west hand, whatever it means, is wrong. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flem72 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Mark and I were generally on the same page during the GNT's. Here's a hand that cost in our loss. [hv=pc=n&w=sakj5h6da942ck965&e=s4hakqj42dqt63c32&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1dp1hp1sp3hp4cp4hp4np6hp6Npp]266|200[/hv] This is a week old, and I might have the black suits in West a little off, but this pretty close. A few notes: 1. 1♠ is unbalanced2. 3♥ is forcing, per xyz3. We play kickback, so 4♠ is supposed to be a cue Some side questions: 1. Does 3♥ 'set trump' in an xyz auction? Does it matter if the rebid is 1 of a suit or 1N? 2. How strong is 3♥? Is it simply GF and shows great trump? Or is it a serious try but could have marginal trump? 3. Any comments on 4♣? In all of the versions of XYZ I know, 3H here is Very Good Suit, SI, whether O's rebid is 1suit or 1NT. 2D then jump in H seems to describe this one better, but what if O held stronger Dand C and weaker S? Another possibility is the variant that would go 1D-1H1S-2C*2D**-3S*** * = puppet to 2D, usually inv values** = puppeting***= self splinter with Very Good Suit. Then if O's hand is stronger D and C and weaker S, you've taken care of that possibility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Don't play XYZ, I presume you play WJS, we would bid this via a "S"JS auction. 1♦-2♥2N (max 1 heart)-3♦3N (strong suggestion of indifferent 4144 with blacks stopped and not great diamonds) In your auction, I suspect 4♣ was bid assuming 3♥ showed a bigger hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 I think everything is fine up until 4H. This has to be minimalish with solid hearts, it should end the auction I agree and would think that it should also be noted by west that east bypassed the chance to cue or bid 4♦ as LTTC if playing that. I'd pass 4♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Don't play XYZ, I presume you play WJS, we would bid this via a "S"JS auction. 1♦-2♥2N (max 1 heart)-3♦3N (strong suggestion of indifferent 4144 with blacks stopped and not great diamonds) In your auction, I suspect 4♣ was bid assuming 3♥ showed a bigger hand. We do not play WJS, but 2♥ is something unrelated to the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Mark and I were generally on the same page during the GNT's. Here's a hand that cost in our loss. [hv=pc=n&w=sakj5h6da942ck965&e=s4hakqj42dqt63c32&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1dp1hp1sp3hp4cp4hp4np6hp6Npp]266|200[/hv] This is a week old, and I might have the black suits in West a little off, but this pretty close. A few notes: 1. 1♠ is unbalanced2. 3♥ is forcing, per xyz3. We play kickback, so 4♠ is supposed to be a cue Some side questions: 1. Does 3♥ 'set trump' in an xyz auction? Does it matter if the rebid is 1 of a suit or 1N? 2. How strong is 3♥? Is it simply GF and shows great trump? Or is it a serious try but could have marginal trump? 3. Any comments on 4♣? prefer 2d here over 1s not 3h but close. then: 1d=1h1s=2d(art gF)3c=3d(gf but a bit weaker than a direct 3d over 1s. which would be a clear strong slam try)3s=4d4h(rkc in d)=4nt(1-4)5d I play 3h as a strong slam try. West has extras so hard to stay out of slam after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 West 100%. Why did west move over the 4H sign-off? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Agree with all of those above who say 4H should have ended the auction, therefore all the blame to West --- unless the 3H bid itself already guaranteed more than East had. All I know from the OP is that it is forcing. However, I don't understand "We play Kickback, so 4♠ is supposed to be a cue." If you play Kickback, 4♠ is Kickback. Do you mean West's 4NT was a spade cue? I also don't understand the jump to 6H over the alleged spade cue. It seems East has already described the great hearts and nothing else to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 However, I don't understand "We play Kickback, so 4♠ is supposed to be a cue." If you play Kickback, 4♠ is Kickback. Do you mean West's 4NT was a spade cue? I also don't understand the jump to 6H over the alleged spade cue. It seems East has already described the great hearts and nothing else to say. Yes that's my point, which should help explain the jump to 6♥ instead of responding to RKC. East thought West needed a club card for slam, since he didn't RKC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 East thought West needed a club card for slam, since he didn't RKC.But East didn't have a club card, so why did he bid slam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 But East didn't have a club card, so why did he bid slam? He didn't have a club card - but he had a club control. How would West bid with AKQx xx AKxxx xx? BTW, East was 2-1 in the blacks, not 1-2. Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 BTW, East was 2-1 in the blacks, not 1-2. Fixed.That may just be "by the way" to you, but to me it's a rather significant change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 as Phil asked I think what 3h rather than going thru 2d is a rather open question in XYZ I prefer jumps to 3 level to, in general, be stronger than going through 2d. west has a problem since slam can be cold opp a minimum but good slam try 3h bid.... If 3h is just a minimum 6 card/gf heart bid that is another issue. As I said in my post I thought this hand was close but was just short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yin970902 Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 IMO，bid 3♥ is based on O's 1♦,so ♦Queen is value added,and has a solid ♥suit.When O's 4♣ cuebid,R's 4♥ ranther than 4♦ is alarted,so stop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 :P I think W just got a little over-excited with his hand. The 4♣ cue bid should, imo., show the ace because it is the first cue bid by a strong hand is and not in any of pard's suits. Over 4♥, W should reflect that his hand keeps getting worse and worse as the auction progresses. It is now down to 15 HCP and poor trump support. There is, imo., no presumption that pard's ♥ are solid, just long and playable opposite a singleton or void. 4♥ can be passed, its time to give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I think it depends partly on your agreement about the meaning of 3H. I don't play xyz, but I do play a jump to 3H as nat FG with good trumps and go via 2C with other hands. However, I also play that the jump to 3H promises basically strong jump shift strength and sets trumps, so I would bid 3S (cue) on the West hand. When East bids 4H over that, West is confused (where are all of East's high cards?) but will pass as they are obviously off the ace of clubs and the king of diamonds. So partly where your auction went wrong is West's inability to cue 3S over 3H. If you play Italian cue bidding (so East could cue 4C over that) then either East shouldn't do so, or your 3H bid is weaker and West should pass 4H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 That may just be "by the way" to you, but to me it's a rather significant change. I know. I didn't mean to sound glib about it. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 can east have? Qx..AKQJxxx...xx....QX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 can east have? Qx..AKQJxxx...xx....QXNo...unless he fell asleep with 4H instead of 4D LTTC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Would (should) West bid differently with ♠AKJx ♥x ♦K9xx ♣A9xx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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