Get to the grand

[Lovera]

If i bid 5 NT i ask for Kings in application of RKCB when i have all keys, but If i don't bid it i required another thing(=? Queen). Then Queen and doubleton are controlls of III round how King and singleton are controlls of II round. Let's suppose that i ought to bid a King on 5NT having a singleton in a cheapest suit : i think that is possible bids this cheapest suit instead King for passing shape usefull information (en passant as N i don't feel necessity to investigate for Queen in diamond than 5NT). How do you think about ?

[Lovera]

There is no problem with any precision that can make south pattern out his diamond doubleton.

 

With natural methods I would start 2♣-2NT-4♣ now I can tell you I can't find grand scientifically, but I can try this:

 

2♣-2NT

4♣-4♠

4NT-5♣ (blackwood-1)

6♦-7♣ (6♦ asks for third round control of the suit)

 

Obviously this risks playing 6NT on a finesse if partner only holds ♠K and ♣A but a 22NT positive should be done form 10+

There is a consideration that we can do about 2♣ and positive reponse and is this :when RKCB discover 1 key(=A) we know that in spade are KQ (the lonely possibility) althoug 5NT should not be ? for King but, instead (and more usefull), for Queen or doubleton than 6♦, bye.

[Zelandakh]

I am agree with 2♣-2♠, 3♣-4♣ but after i bid 4NT(1430)-5♣, 5NT=we have all keys. Then because doubleton in diamond allow us doesn't have Q of spade it being important for two ruffs, why dosen't signal with 6♦ instead 6♠ ?-7♣, bye.

2♠ is an interesting choice of response without commentary. I think a generic 2♣ auction should probably begin with 2♣ - 2♦; 3♣ - 3♦ or 2♣ - 2NT; 3♣ - 3♦, where the 3♦ bid in each case gathers information about Opener's majors. Then 3NT and Responder can now go slamming in clubs. As a side effect, this approach also successfully eliminates the hand with the red suits reversed.

 

As for adding the red jacks to the South hand, for some strong club systems that is a 1NT opening and not so difficult to sort out. B-) In fairness, it should be easy after a 1♣ opening too. A nebulous 1♦ is probably in the worst position.

 

Incidentally, @brian, you should consider adding some zoom to your relay responses. It can help a lot in making them more efficient sometimes. It is nice that you can make the SSA in diamonds below 6♣ though - standard Kickback would have to choose between 7♣ and 6NT. It is a good hand for 1430 Minorwood and the like - that can get the SSA in as low as 5♦.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=skq53ht964d86caj8&n=sahaqdak97ckqt743&d=s&a=1C(BAL or !C)p1S(No M)p1N(BAL. 11-13. No 5M)p2d(XYZ. FG)p2N(4 !Hs 4 !Ss)p3C(REL)p3D(4423)p4C(RKC for !Cs)p4D(1/4)p4S(Ks?)p5S(!SK)p7C]399|300| Using our latest 2/1 variant :)

With "Rule of 18" openers. [/hv] Tentative XYZ responses:

A but clunky. What do others suggest?

1♣ - 1♠ -

1N – 2♦ ART. XYZ. FG

- 2♥ = NAT. 4 ♥s & 2-3 ♠s. Then

- - 2N = REL.

- - - 3♣ = NAT. 2434.

- - - 3♦ = NAT. 2443.

- - - 3♥ = NAT. 3433.

- - - 3♠ = ART. 3424.

- - - 3N = NAT. 3442.

- 2♠ = NAT. 4 ♠s & 2-3 ♥s. Then

- - 2N = REL .

- - - 3♣ = NAT. 4234.

- - - 3♦ = NAT. 4243.

- - - 3♥ = ART. 4324.

- - - 3♠ = NAT. 4333.

- - - 3N = NAT. 4342.

- 2N = ART 4♥s & 4♠s. Then

- - 3♣ = REL.

- - - 3♦ = ART. 4423

- - - 3♥ = ART. 4432

- 3♣ = NAT. 5 ♣s. Then

- - 3♦ = REL.

- - - 3♥ = ART. 2335.

- - - 3♠ = ART. 3235.

- - - 3N = ART. 3325.

- 3♦ = ART. 4♣s or 4♦s. Then

- - 3♥ = REL.

- - - 3♠ = ART. 3334.

- - - 3N = ART. 3343.

- 3♥ = ART. 2353.

- 3♠ = ART. 3253.

- 3N = NAT. 3352.

[Zelandakh]

Since a major suit fit has been denied, it seems like a relay scheme based around minor suit lengths might be suggested, for example (after 1♣ - 1♠; 1NT - 2♦):

 

2♥ = 4+ clubs, <4 diamonds

... - 2♠ = relay

... - ... - 2NT = 3 diamonds

... - ... - ... - 3♣ = relay

... - ... - ... - ... - 3♦ = 5 clubs

... - ... - ... - ... - ... - 3♥ = relay

... - ... - ... - ... - ... - ... - 3♠ = 2335

... - ... - ... - ... - ... - ... - 3NT = 3235

... - ... - ... - ... - 3♥ = 3334

... - ... - ... - ... - 3♠ = 2434

... - ... - ... - ... - 3NT = 4234

... - ... - 3♣ = 2 diamonds, 4 clubs

... - ... - ... - 3♦ = relay

... - ... - ... - ... - 3♥ = 3424

... - ... - ... - ... - 3♠ = 4324

... - ... - 3♦ = 3325

... - ... - 3♥ = 2425

... - ... - 3♠ = 4225

2♠ = no minor or both minors

... - 2NT = relay

... - ... - 3♣ = 2344/3244/2245

... - ... - 3♦ = 3433

... - ... - 3♥ = 4333

... - ... - 3♠ = 4423

... - ... - 3NT = 4432

2NT = 3 clubs, 4+ diamonds

... - 3♣ = relay

... - ... - 3♦ = 5 diamonds

... - ... - 3♥ = 3343

... - ... - 3♠ = 2443

... - ... - 3♠ = 4243

3♣ = 3442/4342

3♦ = 3352

3♥ = 2452

3♠ = 4252

 

Obviously there are lots of possibilities here if you are willing to go fully artificial. One thing I do suggest is making space for minimum (422)5 hands though. You get a bit of a bidding headache with this system if you cannot pass them through a 1NT rebid!