Stayman question

[mr1303]

[hv=pc=n&s=s9762hak83dj94c82&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1np2cd2dp]133|200[/hv]

 

1NT was 16-18. 2C was normal Stayman.

 

You have no specific agreements as to how to act when Stayman is doubled. What do you call here?

[wyman]

A usual scheme is that XX is business, bidding normally shows a club stopper, and pass shows all hands without a club stopper. After pass,

 

... XX - This is re-Stayman, but opener inverts his reply so that 2H shows spades, 2S shows hearts. This is to keep doubler on lead if we play in a major, protecting (at least for now) our only potental club cards.

... ... 2D - no major, passable

... ... 2H - 4+ spades, possibly has hearts as well

... ... 2S - 4+ hearts, denies 4S.

... 2D - Shows 4+ diamonds and a 4cM, invitational but NF

... ... 2M shows 4 of the other major as above

... 2H is P/C (garbage)

 

I would assume something like this playing with a solid player, regardless of whether we'd discussed it (hence I'd bid 2N in this auction).

 

If I were playing with an inexperienced player, I'd either pass or bid 2N depending on my mood. Probably pass -- I'm not bringing a ton to the party. We're NV anyway, so I'll be happy with the plus. Either way, I'm marking this hand for discussion after the session.

[helene_t]

I would bid 3♣, a bid in opps' suit, asking p to do something intelligent, in particular to bid 3NT with a club stopper.

[Quantumcat]

There are lots of things you can do as long as you talk to your partner about it.

 

One option is 2♥ and 2♠ show five-card suits, which can help you know how to compete over a 3♣ bid, and get you to a 5-3 major suit fit when 3NT was failing on a club lead. Redouble can show no four-card major and at least some willingness for clubs to be trumps, letting you pass when you have the majority of the points and no (major or diamond) fit, and 2♦ is semi-natural, no four-card major and doubt about defending clubs - this will put Staymaner in the picture and make it easy to compete over 3♣, or get you to a diamond game when 3NT was failing. Pass is simply none of the above. Staymaner can redouble with a good balanced hand and there is no fit but clubs - pard can bid a four-card major or pass.

[aguahombre]

I would bid 3♣, a bid in opps' suit, asking p to do something intelligent, in particular to bid 3NT with a club stopper.

Problem with this is that opener cannot bid 2N over 3C, and we only have an invite. So, Wyman's understanding about what is standard (whether it is standard or not) would work better in this case.

 

Not sure I would like the Wyman scheme in cases where opener passes with a 4cM or 5cM and clubs are raised in front of me.

[Cyberyeti]

Problem with this is that opener cannot bid 2N over 3C, and we only have an invite. So, Wyman's understanding about what is standard (whether it is standard or not) would work better in this case.

 

Not sure I would like the Wyman scheme in cases where opener passes with a 4cM or 5cM and clubs are raised in front of me.

Opposite 15-17 this is more of a problem, sometimes in competitive auctions you have issues, so I'm reasonably comfortable with a slight overbid of 3♣ opposite 16-18, particularly at IMPs.

[wyman]

Not sure I would like the Wyman scheme in cases where opener passes with a 4cM or 5cM and clubs are raised in front of me.

 

Dbl by responder is values, so it's fine. We're not gonna miss our games. Opener can still bid the opposite major so that this gets rightsided (or 4D with both, or 3D with neither, or sit with a balanced defensive hand).

[wanoff]

Problem with this is that opener cannot bid 2N over 3C, and we only have an invite. So, Wyman's understanding about what is standard (whether it is standard or not) would work better in this case.

 

Not sure I would like the Wyman scheme in cases where opener passes with a 4cM or 5cM and clubs are raised in front of me.

 

I would say it's standard over 2NT and Baron, but I'm not sure over 1NT. We do if partner remembers :)

In this case we're a bit fixed but presumably this isn't min so I'll also try 3C.

[gordontd]

A usual scheme is that XX is business, bidding normally shows a club stopper, and pass shows all hands without a club stopper.

I thought it was more common to pass with a stopper, in case partner wants to play 2Cx.

[wyman]

I thought it was more common to pass with a stopper, in case partner wants to play 2Cx.

 

You also drive on the left :rolleyes:

[Mbodell]

I'd play XX is penalty, pass is no stopper, any bid shows a stopper. Therefore I'd bid 2nt now.

[gordontd]

You also drive on the left :rolleyes:

That depends where I am driving :)

[nigel_k]

I also agree with pass showing a stopper but have no idea if it's standard. In these situations I like to be able to get them because people double on all kinds of garbage and you don't have to give up much in order to keep 2♣XX as an option. In any case, partner's clubs are not good enough to redouble and he almost certainly has a diamond suit so I'll guess to play 2♦.

[Zelandakh]

There are 2 good reasons for pass to show a stopper and bidding to deny one. One is the ability to stop in 2♣ when it is right knowing partner has some values there. The other is that the opponents are less likely to be raising aggressively when we hold values in their suit than when we have nothing there.

[mikl_plkcc]

I would treat it as no majors.

 

In my system, after Stayman is doubled:

XX = 5 clubs

/ = both majors (after that transfer to the major)

2♦ = no majors nor 5 clubs

2♥ = 4 ♥s but not 4 ♠s

2♠ = 4 ♠s but not 4 ♥s