Hanoi5 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Teams, all red: ♠AKQx♥xx♦AJxx♣KQx 1♦-(2♥)-X-(3♥)??? What's your call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I will try 5s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 4S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I opened 2NT. But, if I grabbed the wrong card or misclicked, I now bid 4S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 4♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I vote that we just establish 18-20 as the opening 2NT range for these fora. Since that hasn't happened yet, 4S seems fine; not looking for the perfect hand where partner can't advance but we make slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasetb Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I vote 'Nay' for 18-20 HCP as 2NT, but 'Yay' to 4♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 The key is that pard made the negative double, so can't be completely bereft of values. I'm bidding 4 ♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 The key is that pard made the negative double, so can't be completely bereft of values. I'm bidding 4 ♠.?? That would be a key if we were contemplating a pass. Here, the decision is whether to try for slam or just bid 4S. Pard has enough values for the 3-level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think 4♥ showing a good raise to 4♠ is fine. It's not like partner will make some crazy jump to a bad slam when he is off AKQ of trumps anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 4S seems practical. I might try X followed by bidding spades, but the X might get passed :( ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted July 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 What's the minimum for partner's double at this Vulnerability and against this pre-emptive jump? Wouldn't 4♥ show a ♥ control? I thought 5♠ would be unanimous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 4♥ absolutely doesn't show a heart control, it just shows a slam invite. Why should you have to get to 5♠ every time partner is rejecting and go down there when some suit doesn't break or there is a ruff or something? And what if partner has heart control but you still don't have slam, JTxx Ax KQxx xxx or something? It's not all about a heart control, we don't even know if we have slam values yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkham Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 4♠.For this particular hand it would be nice if 4♥ was a general force, but I reckon it shows a heart control. Also partner could be fairly weak with four spades for his double, so not going to the five level. Would be surprised if slam is on and partner can't bid again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 For the 5♠ bidders - are you bidding 5♠ as a general slam invite, or requesting partner to bid 6♠ if he has second-round heart control? If the latter, how do you know that second-round heart control is enough to make slam a good bet? I bid 4♥ as a big hand with a spade fit. I don't believe it promises a heart control on this auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 4♥ absolutely doesn't show a heart control, it just shows a slam invite. Why should you have to get to 5♠ every time partner is rejecting and go down there when some suit doesn't break or there is a ruff or something?Or even when there are just three unavoidable losers. Partner could have J10xxx xx Qxx AJx. I'm very surprised that so many people expect 4♥ to promise heart control - I thought people stopped playing that in about 1975. We have only one slam-try below game and partner is unlimited, so it's obviously impractical to have 4♥ promise some specific heart holding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statto Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 What's the minimum for partner's double at this Vulnerability and against this pre-emptive jump?About 8/9 HCP I would have thought. For the 5♠ bidders - are you bidding 5♠ as a general slam invite, or requesting partner to bid 6♠ if he has second-round heart control? If the latter, how do you know that second-round heart control is enough to make slam a good bet?For me 5♠ asks for slam with 2nd round ♥ control. I'm not sure it's enough though, so I prefer 4♥ to show a better hand than I would have bid 4♠ with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 there are a huge number of more distributional (and weaker) handsthat qualify to bid 4s (AQxx xxx AKxxxx void). It seems a shame we cannot easily show our dynamite 19 power pack or can we?????????? Last train 4h qualifies to show this type of hand but I am not certainit is useable here since we do not have an agreed trump suit. Does4h really promise spades or can it be made with a huge hand withlong/strong diamonds??? (K xx AQJxxxx AKQ) If we agree that last train can be used like this then responder must beable to sign off in 4s (with no slam interest) and let p pass or take overby either continuing to cue bid, 4n, or correct 4s to 5d. If this thoughtis standard agreement forgive my diatribe and put me in the campwith the 4h users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I wouldn't think of 4♥ as last-train. It's a bid in the opponents' suit. Bids in the opponents' suit usually show support, for example: 1♥ (1♠) 2♠ 1♥ (3♣) 4♣ (1♥) 1♠ (pass) 2♥ I agree that in this sequence 4♥ could possibly be a very strong hand with diamonds, but partner should assume it shows spades unless we convert 4♠ to 5♦, or jump to 6♦ over Keycard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I don't think it's workable to play 4H as either a spade slam try or a good hand with diamonds.I think if we have a good hand with diamonds we bid diamonds. Or (by agreement) we bid 4NT to show a good 5D bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 4♠ for me. Pard never has what I need for slam in these auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMoe Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 The problem with 5♠ is that it might wrongside the contract against a ♥ lead. It might also goad partner to slam with minimum negative doubles: xxxx, Kx, KQxx, xxx. Undiscussed I would expect 4♥ shows a control (a la one ask 2 show). Last train, and strong support asking for control bidding are possible with prior agreement. I trust partner has enough sense to know that my jump to 4♠ is very strong opposite his/her 8 HCP minimum. With xxxx, Kx, Kxxx, Axx I would hope partner would continue on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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